11wk old male pup temperament - Page 2

Malndobe,

You have some very good points. I automatically think resource guarding as aggression toward the owner. I expect it with littermates. It wouldnt be a behavior that I would want so would redirect the behavior to something more positive. So why encourage it? I read what you wrote maybe you can give an example?

Barb

Bhaugh,

I had a litter of working Malis who, at 5 weeks, would absolutely draw blood over food or toys, regardless of whether human or canine
were trying to take it away. It was in the lines.. no biggie really. Separate at 8 weeks and don't mess with food (which was a huge trigger)
and teach the 2 toy game. The male that I kept was the biggest @ss of them all and at 11 months certified dual purpose. He was the most
extreme case I have come across at such a young age... just a take no crap from anyone, oozing confidence at 8 weeks. I knew at 4 weeks
his little but was staying with me :) There was no training that would help his food aggression... just management. He was a "don't F with"
kind of dog, an absolute blast to work though.

Melissa
 

Same here. I haven't really had many pups who don't aggressively defend what is theirs at that age. Most start waaaaaay younger and don't care if it's man or beast who is infringing on what is "theirs." If I'm keeping them, I correct it when it's toward me. I have had some serious food aggression issues and just correct it early when I see it and warn buyers to do the same. Like Melissa said, it doesn't always go away, but you just manage it; it's really not a big deal and some really good dogs are like that. Take the good with the bad...........It's certainly not something out of the ordinary for the breedings and I would certainly expect the same from many Mals. 

I think Malndobe's posts make a lot of good points, too. 

Y  ou have some very good points. I automatically think resource guarding as aggression toward the owner. I expect it with littermates. It wouldnt be a behavior that I would want so would redirect the behavior to something more positive. So why encourage it? I read what you wrote maybe you can give an example?

I think the standard thought is that the more possessive a dog is over something, the more it will work to obtain it.  So if you want a dog that will work all day long looking for drugs for a toy reward, you should get a dog that will kill for his toy.

I think though there are levels of possession, and levels of handler aggression mixed into those.  And different people will read different behaviors differently.  I've seen dogs that are so possessive of their toys they have to be choked out to get it from them, but they wouldn't even think of actually going after the person choking them out, they are just so stuck in "it's mine, I want it want it want it want it want it" mode that they won't give it up.  And other dogs may not actually be as possessive in terms of being so focused on keeping the toy they have to be choked out, but are more aggressive and will go after someone for even coming near the toy.   Some people may not think the first dog is as possessive as the second one because he won't attack another dog or handler, he will just clamp down on what he has and refuse to give it up.  I see the possession in the first dog, but without the aggression.

How useful is it?  Depends on how you train, and if you like it or not.  Personally I don't tolerate my dogs trying to bite me for any reason, so I have no use for a dog like that.  I do however like a dog who is naturally possessive, without the aggression towards me, because as I mentioned earlier it can make for an easier retrieve.   Or an easier guard of object.  This dog was 4 or 5 months old when we took these photos, learning the basics of the Ringsport guard of object.  This was pure possessive behavior for that duffel bag on his part.  But the same dog worships the ground I walk on and would never consider behaving this way to me.  His possessiveness for the object makes this a much easier exercise to train though, then the way many people teach it, which is more of a "stay" exercise, with permission to bite when the decoy is in reach.
 

Another good post, Malndobe. 

I agree. I have had dogs of both types. Sometimes the aggressive ones are simply the ones not bonded to me yet (puppies would also fall into this), and after a while, they wouldn't think of turning the aggression toward me, but they may still not release the object without serious, um, persuasion(LOL) until even later in our training/relationship. 

My 6 yr old female, Capri, is the first type. Anyone else would likely have to kill her to get her to let go of a ball, toy, whatever, but she's not going to kill them over it. Now, when I first got her, she would possess something and then raise her lip at anyone wanting it. Other dogs don't dare try to take it to this day, but she hasn't done that to me in a looooong time. I can pull, tug, try to open her jaws, all to no avail, but she's looking at me with this sweet but stubborn "You're great, really, but I'm sorry, you cannot have this. This is mine." LOL. I'm not even slightly concerned about her biting me.  It's a dirty trick, but if she's in a particularly disobedient/stubborn mood (or if there are other dogs around she worries might take it if she hands it back to me) I'll send my 3yr old (human, not dog) to go get it. All he has to say is "Aus!"   Visitors find it hilarious.

Anyway...hopefully these distinctions will help the OP's puppy. 

he sounds very insecure about everything even at home, when idefix was that age i had to watch him all the time when i let him off leach because he thought the world was his to exploreno matter were we came, ok if a called him he came back but when i would let him go into a forrest he dissapeared untill i called him
​if you want your puppy for sport or familiedog i think you can train him as long as you socialise him well, if you want him as a service dog i think you be beter off if you got a diffrent one

ZedDogs: Wow, you have unrealistic expectations for a 11 week old mal pup. You obviously do not know the breed and are wanting to critisize what I call a normal mal pup. You are unwilling to contact the breeder and find out what is normal for the timeline for that breeder's lines. You are unwilling to get educated about the breed. You want to come to a public forum and complain instead of finding out what will work for YOUR pup.

You need to get educated about socializing malinois. When it is gong through a huge mental development as a puppy or young dog, just because a mal is ok with something doesn't mean that it will be fine the next week. Also, pups go through several fear periods depending upon the age, lines, and sex. Remember, the puppy's brain is growing astronomically during this period. Go to Leerburg.com and look up Michael Ellis's free video on fear stages in dogs.

Pups will have intermittent periods of security and curiosity when they feel like exploring and being independent. And then they have periods when they are a little fearful with new things and want to stay with you. This will be dependent upon the pup's age, level of socialization that you have done with the pup, the level of security they feel with you, the pup's individual temperament and it's lines.

Object possessiveness is very common in certain lines. It is up to the owner to shape it to their liking and the pup's working purpose.

Contact the breeder and find out the specifics of what you need to do for your pup.  Socializing a mal takes about a good 1-1/2 years. They will be ok with something and then 2 weeks or 1 month later, they are fearful. Socialization is a work in progress for this period.

You need to change your expectations and work with your pup or return it to the breeder. The socialization is very do-able for you if you get busy and stick to it this next year. You can shape the object guarding, but if it is too strong for your liking, then the breeder may have another pup that is a better fit for you. But it sounds like you are more of a pet person and may do better with another breed, so you may just want to return the pup while it is still young.