Curious why so many embrace the DM DNA test? - Page 10

Your minds were made up from the beginning. Thus the attack on Gwen questioning whether or not she even had an ill dog. Its pathetic you cannot see that question was uncivil and totally out of line. However It doesnt surprise me, as this is typical of the entire scenario with the ofa dna test and accepting what organizations whose attempts to brain wash are successful. Its cult like behavior. Your minds are made up and you have no desire to b e confused by the facts. What you dont seem to be able to comprehend is that it is not ME you are hurting, but the breed you profess to love.  That can be summed up in one word- hypocrite.

The facts are, that as a researcher you are grossly unprepared to further your hypothesis. This is why you can not find funding. All the name calling and screaming from the rooftops will not change this outcome, until you change your attitude.

In the interest of fairness, I agree with Marj about the political way the AKC CHF dispenses money. Not too long ago I got into a rather heated discussion on another breed board with a vet student who was studying under a vet whose dog had served at Ground Zero. That dog, along with 10, 11 others, participated in a study funded by a CHF grant of just under one million to track the longterm health of those dogs over a ten year period. Sounds OK, doesn't it,  until you start to ask questions like how were the participating dogs selected, were any of home security or the NYC PD dogs tracked and the results. The published conclusion of the study was - dogs serving at Ground Zero suffered no long term respiratory or other health issues attributed to their service there. Ironicaly this study was concluded at the same time several NYC firefighters were suing the city for compensation for health issues they claimed were the result of exposure at Ground Zero. Most had serious respiratory problems.

The selected dogs were cadaver and SAR dogs from all over the country. Their owners had responded to the request for trained dogs to search the debris for bodies. The average time served by each dog and handler was 12 days and no NY PD or other K9 dogs were included although some of them served for a year or more and a large percentage of those dogs had already died from one of the leukemias, other cancers and many had respiratory issues. Why were those dog excluded from the study? It turned out to be a political thing (IMO), it looked like someone with one of those SAR dogs worked for someone who was a generous donor to the AKC CHF foundation. When I asked why the dogs that served there longterm weren't tracked I never got a straight answer. When I asked if any of the researchers considered the fact that more than a few of the K9's that served there had already died from lymphosarcoma, they said that was anecdotal and not relevant to the study.

I will no longer contribute one cent to the AKC CHF.A million dollars spent to track a handful of dogs that served for an average of 12 days at Ground Zero was not IMO money well spent that benefted dogs in general.

A friend worked for the NIH in DC and said statistics there were manupulated all the time in order to receive funding for politician's pet projects.

Blitzen, just to clarify, I am not even being specific (as in the AKC) when I speak of funders. They would be one source, that much is true. 

I don't think it's fair to label posters as hypocrits because they are skeptical about the intent of some OP's. Most just want to to understand the disease and avoid producing it; to that end we want to hear from all the researchers.  

I don't intend to stop DNA testing for DM until I am convinced there is something better. I will err on the side of caution and use those results accordingly so I reduce the odds of producing dogs that test at risk. Can they still get DM, maybe, maybe not.  Right now no one knows that for sure. If the Flash test were still aviailable, I'd use it in conjunction with the Coates test. Maybe DM in the GSD is different from other breeds, maybe it's more like ALS, maybe it's more like MS, I don't know for sure. Like the rest of you, I'm just doing the best I can. Right now we are cutting the baby in half.

I think it's was a terrible blow to the breed when Clemmons lost his funding.

I understand BeeTree. I think if it could be proven one way or the other that GSD DM is the same as ALS or MS here might be some grants available.

If there is no well thought out plan to prove a theory, then there can be no grants. Not knowing or seeking 501 c 3 organizations that would support one's research, so that a broader base of funders can contribute, is just ignorant.

When my first breed was proven to be a model for a human disease, we had to retain professionals to apply for and administer the grants. It turned out to not be a whole lot of money, but it did help to establish the mode of inheritance and to identify other markers that were exclusive to the effected population.

A post from over the ocean, as most postings seem to be US posts.

First; everybody, try to be polite to each one, even when disagreeing.

Second; I too have doubts as to the SOD1 test and nevertheless I keep on testing. As a neurologist told me after the OFA test became available: I do not consider the cause of DM to house in the SOD1, but by lack of better we recommend it.
A geneticist, elderly already and not afraid to speak his mind in public on TV and radio and very much involved in animal-welfare, put it like this: The boys and girls at the uni's want to publish, so they research. After having found out something it is being published as fast as possible. Thereafter they are no longer interested in more research because the outcome of their own research may be questioned. So they try to block any new research.

Whether DM is to be compared with ALS or MS I don't know, I am no neurologist. However reading about it in the Wikipedia I personally consider it more likely to be like MS.
The Wiki about ALS says; degeneration of upper and lower neurons, located in the ventral horn of the spinal cord and the cortical neurons that provide their efferent input. Futhermore: characterized by rapidly progressive weakness, muscle atrophy and fasciculations, spasticity, dysarthria, dysphagia, and respiratory compromise. 
This doesn't comply with my experience with DM and by now I have had, unfortunately, quite a bit of it. I have seen no impairement of the brainstem but in my opinion a clear degradation of the nerves in the backbone caused by the myolin being affected.
The Wiki about MS says;  an inflammatory disease in which the fatty myelin sheaths around the axons of the brain and spinal cord are damaged, leading to demyelination, which is more in line with my own observations.
ALS affects the nerves of the brainstem, our dogs only showed a progressive weakness of the hind legs, daily massage of the spinal cord at about 2/3 of the backbone kept them going for quite a while, even though the end was inevitable.

What it all comes down to is that more research is warranted, it's a pity that Dr. Clemmons has been denied funds to continue, but what about Texas A&M, they were doing research as well. What I mean to say is; one shouldn't be blind to other, maybe radically different, points of view. No one, not Dr Coates nor Dr. Clemmons nor anyone else should rule out anything. It could very well be that the cause of DM differs by breed. Maybe DM is not the one disease as we label it and should we consider to alter it into DM-syndrome which would open our minds to more possible solutions.

Blitzen mentioned a one million dollar project, I only wish we could have funds like that over here, what could we accomplish with so much money! Our scientists at the university have only limited fixed salaries (yes, that is socialist allright), but that results in the best outcome for the least of money.