Defense drive or Prey drive - Page 11

preston, i feel that  you are speaking down upon people who train there dogs (working folk). there is no subculture, no consperioucy, no myths. what people have been saying on here is based on scientific facts (myself included). ALL ANIMALS EXPERIENCE FEAR (and that includes all dogs)

quote: from preston, This is my opinion

thats right it's just your opion, based not on facts.

preston you should contact me at tpd2654@yahoo.com,  I can get you the help you need. I know some very good doctors they are really nice people. all that you have to do is reach out and ask for help, i here for you.

I AINT"T SCREEEEEEDDDDD and neither is my Bird killing ant stomping working pouch hound!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ten to one that i could take preston's showdogs to a unfamalier environment and challenge them and they would pee all over themselves!  But I bet Preston would still say "not scareed!  just a pycho reation which is basically what Preston goes thru every time he posts here.

First of all there are no scientific studies concluding that all GSDs or GSDs as a breed experience fear, or for that matter all dogs or all animals.  Second, I have had good GSDs from working lines as well as showlines and have not preferred one over the other if they had rock solid, correct and normal GSD temperament.  Third, it is hard wired in the neurophysiology of most GSDs to seek immediate control or dominance of their territory and circumstances when their is adisruption or incursion of a stranger or non pack member, and this occurs without having to experience any fear reaction as mediative process.  This is not an operant conditioning issue, but rather a hard wired, genetically based neurophysiological event based on neurological procesing in response to perceived symbols.  I have had the bad experienece of breeding a GSD many years ago which grew up to be a fear biter.  He at first appeared to be a great personal protection dog and would fight an aggressor quickly and vigorously (turned out to be too rquick to react).  When the serious counterblows would start he would break off, whereas a supersound GSD aggressing out of dominance and control seeking would not.  It can be an obvious difference between fear based aggression and also in some cases a subtle one.  Neither is proper.  The very hardest GSD I ever owned was a puppy bought from Larry Filo at about 8 weeks old.  He was of top working lines and was the plumpest puppy I had ever seen.  When I went to pick a puppy from the litter, I watched them eat.  When the food pan was put down, this puppy immediately charged in and threw all the other puppies off and kept them away from the food pan until he was done and then let them eat.  The dog exuded confidence and dominance and was the friendliest and most outgoing of the puppies.  I immediately picked him.  The first year was challenging and he devoured many nylabones and quite a few other things.  We took him to a fireworks display and none of the loud explosions phased him at all. Gunfire or firecrackers never bothered him and he would run towards them out of curiosity.  He was friendly to our kids and their friends, and our neighbors and our friends, and yet at night he patrolled our home with a vengeance.  He proved himself a potent protector in real time on one occasion in response to a daytime home breakin. He had no fear of any agitator in bitework and exuded courage at all times. He loved engaging any aggressor anytime and getting control over that aggressor and would wag his tail when the aggressor would approach, sometimes during the fight and afterward and would then be social with the aggressor when the fight was over. There was no fear involved here. I had other friends who had dogs like this we worked in various situations that were also courageous and correct in temperament.  I do not prefer showlines over working lines, but I do prefer correct temperament and good structure over the opposite in any GSD.  It always comes done to the individual dog and there are excellent ones in either of the lines if one knows where to look.  I do not believe that a GSD with correct and sound temperament needs sch or protectuion training to be a good family protector.  It is hard wired in its neurophysiology if it has the proper genetics and development (mostly genetics).

Now, for example of one of many working line GSDs that is particularly praiseworthy (as correctly pointed out by 4pack) is SG Querry von Haus Antverpa.  Here is a dry, well ligamented working line dog with near perfect confirmation and extremely close to the standard.  Who couldn't enjoy owning such a beautiful dog with such great temperament?  This GSD is as good as any top winning showline (zuchschau) GSD in West Germany. A note that he is not a roach back either!

Would it be too much to ask if you could use paragraphs, please? Thanks. :)

How can one be considered courageous without knowing fear?

Again, I think the problem is with the negative aura surrounding the word- Fear.

T-

I think it would take a degree of intelligence for the dog to know what to fear, and have that fear. Then the breeding to react to that fear by attacking. Preston's dogs may not have that intelligence?

Preston...time to give it up and admit you are wrong, the board has spoken!

So the submissive wolf does not show fear, he is just geneticly encoded to be submissive????

Are you a nutbag??? I just need to know, as I am sick of reading your blob of crap. You NEED to separate your blob of crap.

When you get done with this, please take a vacation out to lovely Colorado, so I can see these dogs you are talking about. I would like to video tape them for future reference.

If your dogs are truely all that, I currently have a bitch in season, and then I can get some fearlessness going.

I am serious, it would be fun. I am not nearly the asshole I seem to be on the internet.............well, a bit less of an asshole. : )