TIEKERHOOK breedings in the USA???? - Page 11

As stated before "Good things are coming to the USA". 
www.tiekerhook.com/

As stated before "Good things are coming to the USA". 
www.tiekerhook.com/

he is really gorgeous...and I really love the name Max 

Darylehret,

What handler aggression? I'd love to see some names. You can't mean Nick and Yoschy, they are among the best ALL TIME producers of hips! You can give me a Nick/Yoschy over and over!

I agree with you and I do love Nick and Yoschy, I have a Yoschy grandaughter myself and she is a super dog.  However, it is fairly well known that too close of a line breeding on Yoschy can produce handler aggressive dogs.  Look at some of the dogs his son Amigo produced for example.  You need to be careful when linebreeding on Yoschy, IMHO. 

Jim

I've personally known a couple linebred Yoschy animals, and sure, the social aggression can truly be intense, but not handler directed.  I think handler aggression must somehow be in part "learned", rather than a fully inheritable form of behavior, probably through a poorly developed relationship.

I've spoken to and corresponded with Karl West (Amigo's final owner) numerous times and frankly don't recall any mention of handler aggression.  I've conversed with Koos on the very topic as well, and he has written it off as "internet rumor", being as he has used Yoschy himself twelve times, and also closely linebred on him, and claims that never once a single pup or dog demonstrated handler aggressiveness.

What's the story with Amigo offspring?  Are they linebred Yoschy?  How do you propose one could "be careful", with lots of rumors, misinformation, inexperienced perceptions, and few if any facts to base an intelligent breeding decision upon?  With little else to go on, I'd rather rely on my personal experience, and the expertise of the breeder who's "been there done that" many times over.

slamdunc I can;t beleiev what you are saying. I can;t control my laughter at the same time can't control my disgust at the statement you made. are you for real????

Good Luck!!!

Darylehret,
I think we have had a similar conversation before on the PDB.  Let me start by saying I love what both Yoschy and Nick have accomplished and what they have produced.  I would certainly look for either in my next dog's pedigree.  I can remember a conversation several years ago with Heinz Gerdes regarding breeding my female.  He was the first to mention to be careful on close linebreedings on Yoschy, specifically for handler aggression.  I have also spent a lot of time with Bernhard Flinks who has an Amigo son, Fels that is very handler aggressive.  Now in Fels case it could have been his upbringing as he went through 3 or 4 handlers before Flinks got him.  I have my female who is a Yoschy grandaughter and have seen a sharp side to her as a young dog.  My information came from German breeders, who had nothing bad to say, as a matter of fact only great things to say about Yoschy.  It is probably a mute point any way as you would have difficulty getting a very close linebreeding on Yoschy any more. 

Vikram,
I have a question for you, are your for real?  first off how much do you really know about GSD's?  I'm not trying to be as obnoxious or offensive as you can be, besides your myopic view of Tiekerhook kennels what else do you know?  What have you done with the dogs that you have owned or trained?  Before I respond further to you I'd like to know whom I've made laugh so hard while disgusting them at the same time.  I noticed you often add a lot of sarcastic and obnoxious comments and your comments usually actually lack substance.

I respect Darylehret and I know that he has a vast amount of experience and knowledge and really does contribute to the PDB.  You, I'm not so sure.  But, hey I've been wrong before and Darylehret has made some excellent points and I value his opinion. 

Vikram, please tell me some of your accomplishments in the sport or with GSD's so perhaps I can change my opinion of you.

Cheers,

Jim

Jim, I value your opinion as well, and hope I didn't come across as disrespectful.  The reference to your Yoschy grandaughter's sharpness in youth sounds a bit noncommital, sitting on the fence about handler aggression.  As if to say, the potential was present during her development?  My linebred Yoschy dog has quite a bit of sharpness to him, which I do prefer, and he developed into a very pleasant dog that handles himself well, has a fabulous sense of discrimination for appropriate context for aggression.

I've heard similar reference before (i.e., from breeders repeating what someone else has said), but insufficient evidence in my opinion to back the claims that have been made about Yoschy.  But, the only thing I can say for sure that you're wrong about, is your overestimation of my "vast" experience :-)

Jim, you will not get a reponse from Vikram about his accomplishments or experience with working dogs. I've asked for it before when he has made insane comments about Czech dogs being no good or nervy. You will find as I am sure you know, two kinds of people posting here. Those that know from real life experiences and relationships, and those that know from internet, and second and third hand gossip. IT doesn't take but a minute to differentiate which is which and who is who. Once learned I really try to limit my dialogue with the internet junkies that use the gossip from other unknowledable people to appear to be knowledgable. Unfortunately, they are only knowledgable to those who know less than them so they never get any smarter...peace!

UNfortunately, it might be very interesting to learn who posting on this thread and others, have never worked a dog to titles (any titles) before!   So the knowledge they profess to have, is book-learned (internet or "armchair" expert knowledge) for the most part.  Doesn't mean they are wrong, but puts things into a little different perspective, doesn't it?.

molly