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by duke1965 on 21 August 2010 - 17:08
prager wrote
We were talking with Jiri about it and we agreed that all the best dogs get imported into USA
so what gets left behind to breed with
hans , there are more breeders in czech rep. other than jiri , and I really like some of the dogs he has right now very much , even if they are part west , several are bred by other breeders so they make their own choices
look at the pedigrees of many czech and slovak breeders , look at their advertisements , and tell me you truly believe there will be a czech dog by heart and blood in 10 years from now
I think I spend more time on czech trainingfield , and competitions than you hans , and I must say the amount of czech blood in the pedigrees gets less , and the amound of dogs that show me why I like the czech lines so much gets less
on the other hand I have to agree that at this time jiri got several great dogs that I really like at this time , even with some of them having a part west pedigree , but Im curious how it will be few years from now
some very good males that I wanted to use for future breedings were sold to china and the usa , so it gets harder and harder to plan future breedings and find good dogs in the wanted bloodlines and with the wanted qualities
We were talking with Jiri about it and we agreed that all the best dogs get imported into USA
so what gets left behind to breed with
hans , there are more breeders in czech rep. other than jiri , and I really like some of the dogs he has right now very much , even if they are part west , several are bred by other breeders so they make their own choices
look at the pedigrees of many czech and slovak breeders , look at their advertisements , and tell me you truly believe there will be a czech dog by heart and blood in 10 years from now
I think I spend more time on czech trainingfield , and competitions than you hans , and I must say the amount of czech blood in the pedigrees gets less , and the amound of dogs that show me why I like the czech lines so much gets less
on the other hand I have to agree that at this time jiri got several great dogs that I really like at this time , even with some of them having a part west pedigree , but Im curious how it will be few years from now
some very good males that I wanted to use for future breedings were sold to china and the usa , so it gets harder and harder to plan future breedings and find good dogs in the wanted bloodlines and with the wanted qualities
by Prager on 21 August 2010 - 18:08
Duke. Please reread my last post. Especially the part about Genetics and than the part about the culture. Look you are right about it in most breeders, but again there are breeders like me and Jiri who will rather die then to change our philosophy on these dogs. Also Jiri is a GSD judge and he promotes these dogs and he has healthy following. But we need more judges like that!
Keep in mind. It does not matter where the dogs come from but what you're going to do with them breeding wise and what you are going to keep and what not. It is about philosophy of the breed rather then about nostalgia what had been. As far as you planning breedings I'll PM you.
Prager Hans
http://www.alpinek9.com
Keep in mind. It does not matter where the dogs come from but what you're going to do with them breeding wise and what you are going to keep and what not. It is about philosophy of the breed rather then about nostalgia what had been. As far as you planning breedings I'll PM you.
Prager Hans
http://www.alpinek9.com
by Prager on 21 August 2010 - 18:08
LadyVol71
here is typical example 5 mo, grey sable female from Quint hronovsky pramen x Erin Derik. They all look exactly the same. That is good.
here is typical example 5 mo, grey sable female from Quint hronovsky pramen x Erin Derik. They all look exactly the same. That is good.
by duke1965 on 21 August 2010 - 19:08
hans , to simplefy breeding for one moment
if you keep on breeding westdogs with westtraits to your czech dogs , you will maybe end up with one or two pups in the litter with the desired qualities , but more and more of the pups will be nothing more or less than the same dogs you can get in belgium or germany
Im no fan of dogs with no will of their own ,other than the will to please and tons of preydrive , but these are the desired ones by the competition people
I think when captain max was talking about workingdogs , he didnot mean winning the WUSV , but his thoughts were an overall workingbreed that can be used for just about any job that can be done by dogs , so in that aspect the showwinner is as far from the standart as the sleevesucking ballcrazy sportdog
as far as nostalgia , I dont care for that , but see a clear change in the dogs being bred in czech republik , pedigreewise and caracter/temperamentwise
if you keep on breeding westdogs with westtraits to your czech dogs , you will maybe end up with one or two pups in the litter with the desired qualities , but more and more of the pups will be nothing more or less than the same dogs you can get in belgium or germany
Im no fan of dogs with no will of their own ,other than the will to please and tons of preydrive , but these are the desired ones by the competition people
I think when captain max was talking about workingdogs , he didnot mean winning the WUSV , but his thoughts were an overall workingbreed that can be used for just about any job that can be done by dogs , so in that aspect the showwinner is as far from the standart as the sleevesucking ballcrazy sportdog
as far as nostalgia , I dont care for that , but see a clear change in the dogs being bred in czech republik , pedigreewise and caracter/temperamentwise
by CopDogs on 21 August 2010 - 20:08
Hans
I understand what you are saying but, if you do not breed for good hips and the only way of knowing this is to X RAY then you are breeding for bad hips , you can not have it both ways...
I understand what you are saying but, if you do not breed for good hips and the only way of knowing this is to X RAY then you are breeding for bad hips , you can not have it both ways...
by Prager on 21 August 2010 - 23:08
Copdogs said:
Hans
I understand what you are saying but, if you do not breed for good hips and the only way of knowing this is to X RAY then you are breeding for bad hips , you can not have it both ways...
OH MY GOD!!!!! No, you do not understand what I am saying.
Where have I EVER (!!!!!!!!)
said that I am not breeding for quality hips or that I am not xraying my dog's hips????????????????!!!!!!!!!!????!?
Captain Kirk
I am running 85% - 95% or better on my hips breedings. Just about 2 or 3 posts ago I am talking about xraying my dogs.
The point is that I am not breeding just for hips. As a matter of fact I am dead set against breeding JUST for hips. I promote breeding for total dog. That includes hips besides many other qualities.
Is it just me ? Or what is going on?
Prager Hans.
http://www.alpinek9.com
by Prager on 21 August 2010 - 23:08
duke1965said:if you keep on breeding westdogs with westtraits to your czech dogs , you will maybe end up with one or two pups in the litter with the desired qualities , but more and more of the pups will be nothing more or less than the same dogs you can get in belgium or germany
Not, if you keep breeding the 2 or so good pups from each litter. How do you think the z Pohranicni straze dogs were created. From basically 7 DDR dogs ( Troy, Vikar, Bojar and then second group Iwo, Whisky, Bero, Gomo) and many Czech females by serious statistical selection based on thorough testing and measurements. In other words they kept what they liked just like we do it now. Except we have more dogs to select from. Despair is not necessary. Just demand and our good breeding for good dogs. Now I am not saying that there are no shit dogs of West German sport type are bred but we have good still good dogs and as i stress better ten ever.
Prager Hans
http://www.alpinek9.com
Not, if you keep breeding the 2 or so good pups from each litter. How do you think the z Pohranicni straze dogs were created. From basically 7 DDR dogs ( Troy, Vikar, Bojar and then second group Iwo, Whisky, Bero, Gomo) and many Czech females by serious statistical selection based on thorough testing and measurements. In other words they kept what they liked just like we do it now. Except we have more dogs to select from. Despair is not necessary. Just demand and our good breeding for good dogs. Now I am not saying that there are no shit dogs of West German sport type are bred but we have good still good dogs and as i stress better ten ever.
Prager Hans
http://www.alpinek9.com
by Sam Spade on 22 August 2010 - 00:08
So what you're saying is, you're breeding for bad hips, Hans?
Just kidding! ;p.
But seriously, if I bred my Czech border patrol bitch to a chihuahua, would it kill the instincts to keep illegal aliens out?
by LadyVol71 on 22 August 2010 - 00:08
Hans,
Thank you for your candid appraisal of the Quint x Erin litters. The young bitch in the posted picture is beautiful!! Congratulations on producing such versatile and beautiful working dogs!
Thank you for your candid appraisal of the Quint x Erin litters. The young bitch in the posted picture is beautiful!! Congratulations on producing such versatile and beautiful working dogs!
by duke1965 on 22 August 2010 - 06:08
hans wrote
Not, if you keep breeding the 2 or so good pups from each litter
first question , what do you do with the rest of the pups , sell them as pets
second , if you bred these one or two good pups , what are the chances they will produce quality stock and what will you breed them to , iff all else available is watered down with westbloodlines in them , and all the good ones are sold
Not, if you keep breeding the 2 or so good pups from each litter
first question , what do you do with the rest of the pups , sell them as pets
second , if you bred these one or two good pups , what are the chances they will produce quality stock and what will you breed them to , iff all else available is watered down with westbloodlines in them , and all the good ones are sold
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