OT: US politics talk - who are you voting for and why? - Page 24

I for one would like to see the discussion on abortion go to another forum.

SS

let's talk about RESPONSIBILITY for just a bit.  assuming that the above figures are correct, i come up with approxinately 7% of abortions being performed for reasons of rape, incest and health risk to mother or infant.  what does that leave?  93%.  my god!  93% of abortions are performed because someone was not responsible enough to assure that a pregnancy didnot occur in the first place.  these are people who are willingly having sex, know that it could result in pregnancy, yet take no measures to prevent it from happening.  this is awful.  our society condones this!!?!  what the hell have we become!!?!  it makes my hair stand on end.

also keep in mind that we've been talking about pregnancies that were terminated.  what about people who do not terminate the pregnancy?  i would hate  to even venture a guess at how many of us were "unplanned."   what does this say about our morality? 

until people become RESPONSIBLE for their own sexuality, i don't see an end to this insanity.  if people are not prepared to conceive and raise a child, they should be practicing effective birth control or be sterilized.  with all that we have available to us, an unplanned pregnancy should never occur.

by the way, a german shepherd board, is a perfectly reasonable place to discuss politics.  the people that we choose to put in power are the people who affect every aspect of our lives.  how many posts have been geared toward breed bans and dog legislation?  we need to stay on top of this.  if we don't pay close attention to what is going on, we will end up as some other countries have..........with no say whatsoever.  this is still the land of the free and the home of the brave.  god forbid that we should ever lose that! (i know that this is not a u.s. board, but this is a u.s. politics thread.)

pjp

Shelley, it was never even intended to be a discussion about abortion per se. It's about allowing the government to erode away our rights as citizens. The option to choose being one of those rights granted us LEGALLY. Somehow it all got spun around into a debate regarding the abortion process itself, the moral character of women who opt for an abortion and a lecture on the irresponsible nature of such women.  It sort of reminds me of the mindset of non-dog owners who won't turn their hands to express any concern over BSL and laws like were recently pending in the state of CA because they think dogs are dirty animals unworthy of living.  Or the dog owners who sit back all all smug thinking that what happens in CA is never going to effect them living in some rural area in the mid west.

Banning anything in this country, abortions, dog ownership, hand guns, yadda, yadda, yadda, is just the next step toward our becoming a police state. I am shocked that so many are so eager to hand over their lives to the feds. People had better learn to see the big picture. It's not only about the right to choose although many  legislators would love us to think that way. Divide and conquer................

I think the problem is how you look at it.

Some people see abortion as a right, and the fetus as nothing more than something to be owned.

Some people see abortion as murder, and the fetus as a live baby who should be afforded rights.

For those that believe it is murder -- well, murder isnt a right.

~Cate

Please people get a grip.

More of you should be upset that oil prices have dropped about 28% but gas prices have only dropped about 10%. That is an extra 18% big oil is putting in their pockets. Wait to the next quarter and see what the big oil profits will be, my guess record profits again.  Why is it that when oil prices rise we feel it at the pumps within days but when the price drops it takes the oil companies months to lower the price. Everything is tied to the price of gas so lets see that bottle of syrup you buy at the grocery store has shot up in price about a !/3. Want to have a puppy delivered expect to pay more cause it costs the airlines more for fuel. Want to take an extra piece of luggage on that next trip expect to pay more.

We need people to contact their congressmen and women and ask them why oil continues to drop fast but retail prices are not dropping as fast as wholesale prices.

Abortion is a legal procedure, owning guns is legal, lets make a trade give up your guns and lets outlaw abortion. Dont think you are willing to give up the right to bear arms so why should some give up their right to abortion. I would much rather see an abortion than a child not be loved or worse abused. If you dont want an abortion thats fine no one is going to make you get one but if I get held up by someone with a gun, then I would say someone is forcing that on me.

Blitzen unless one has a grasp of history one cannot really grasp reality.

Lincoln was a tyrant.  He Jailed Newspaper owners & journalists, Sealed US Ports,  declared Martial Law & Warred against the South.   Not one other nation of Dozens, who Had Slavery, Warred over abolition.   Civil War was not about Slavery/ Abolition, but a Federal Government Usurping States Rights.   And thats what he did.  He was alot worse than Saddam Husseign in putting down a revolt.   The confederate flag stands for States rights, as declared by the US Constitution. Read it sometime.

Im Pro Gun. Im  also Anti War 99% of the time, and thats a Republic position historically..  Bankers make money in wars, whilst the public pay the costs.

We Havent had a war worth fighting since 1812, imo.  'Protect the coastline and nothing else', as Congressional Medal Of Honor Marine General Smedley Butler says.

Women were Sold on Feminism by the Feminists, Zionists & Federal Reserve.  It was An organized agenda & movement to tax the other 50% of the US Populace.  Get them out of the house from having & rearing children,  to tax their wages.  The family has suffered, is under attack and life is no longer sacred. Certainly children arent.

Murder is murder.  And Abortion is a $7 Billion a year industry and huge profit center for 'Planned Parenthood' another canard,  as they are a Killing Factory but use this parenthood monikor to dupe the uninformed.

Dr. Bernard Nathanson perfomed 60,000 Abortions,  but later converted to Catholicism.   He has a great story of how the manipulation was done, Divide & Conquer tactics used by NARAL,  to get Roe V Wade to pass in 1973.  I recommend reading it sometime.

Ceph, if you are opposed to the right to choose, then lobby against it at the state level. AGAIN, it's not about what you think or what I think - it's the law period. If it's not against the law, then it's not an illegal procedure. This is no way apples to apples -  legal rights vs perceived moral obligations? Separation of church and state?

Ditto, mygsddogs . And Nero fiddled while Rome burned.

I agree, let's just hand it all over to the government and let them take oh so good care of us.   I also agree this thread isn't about abortion or religion,  we don't get to decide that either, our court's took care of that (government).

It's obvious that we aren't ever gonna agree on much here.    Some want control other's want none.  Some only care about one issue other's are unhappy with everything.    I don't think anyone think's thing's are fine.  

I believe the use of the picture's were in bad taste and only present one side of the issue.   (typical)

Instead of beating each other over the head why don't we tell our concern's to our representative's and elected official's.

When you vote remember you not the electoral....  (like we really have a say)

Judging by this thread we need a keeper.   Others not in american do think we're a mess.  But I wouldn't want to live in Europe either.

No wonder to me why thing's are so screwed up..   

Blitzen,

I haven't heard anyone argue that abortion is not a legal course of action for a woman to take.  I think most pro-lifers would argue instead that Roe v. Wade was a poor legal decision.  That can be illustrated in so many ways.  Several have already been mentioned here; equal protection- Where are the father's rights?  Mom wants to kill it he has no say.  He wants to kill it, mom keeps it, he pays child support.  In instances where a "fetus" is injured in a car accident or by a pregnant woman's actions, there are legal ramifications.  And for you, Brent, if you ever find yourself starving in the wilderness and stumble upon the nest of a bald eagle, you should think twice before making that omlet because the bald eagle embryo is protected.  Blitzen, why would that be argued at the state level as Roe v. Wade is a federal law?  And, what in the world does that have to do with separation of church and state?  Gut check -- Where are you on parental notification?

I think the abortion laws are regulated at the state level, are they not?  Many here have suggested women who have abortions lack morals. I would argue that is a separate issue. Then I read that 1 woman out of 3 will have an abortion before age 45? I don't know any who have had one, do you? Father's rights also need to be argued at the state level. For me this is and always has been about one simple thing - not allowing our constitutional and legal rights to be eroded by politicians for personal gain.

Separation of church and state means to me that they are 2 separate and distinct entities. History has already illustrated to the world that religion and politics never make good bedfellows and more atrocities have been committed in the name of religion  than most of us will ever know about.

I don't care about parental notification, father's rights, or any of the details regarding the right to choose or not. I'll leave that up to those who think they are qualified by their god to make decisions for others. All I care about is that we, the citizens of the US, don't lose anymore than we already have lost.