O/T Political Rants & Raves - Page 46

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luvdemdogs

by luvdemdogs on 06 September 2009 - 18:09

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MVF

by MVF on 06 September 2009 - 19:09

RPK -- A common error is to assume that correlation (especially over time) is showing cause and effect.  The classic example is the odd correlation between average hemlines and stock market prices -- it doesn't actually mean they are related.  Grad students are warned not to fall for the trick of trying to prove their theories with autocorrelation.  This means they should not find two factors that both grew over time and suggest one caused the other.

Over time in the post WWII periods many, many demographic and economic forces occurred, but they did not all cause one another.

For example, the labor force participation rates of married women increased dramatically after WWII -- but that was not caused by povery policy enacted during the 1960s.

On the other hand, I think there are good reasons to believe that AFDC (which was more generous for families with lower incomes -- how could it be otherwise?) drove poor men away from their wives and children.  Many of them were black in northern cities.  I am not denying that many of the impacts of social welfare programs (in fact, may of the impacts of evern perfect social welfare policy) did (and would) hurt the family structure of the poor.

You should be careful about your historical assumptions, however.  Many people seem to think that black rights marched upward linearly from the Civil War to the present day, but this is not at all true.  Blacks had greater political power in the Deep South, for example, in 1870 than in 1960.  Reconstruction, Hayes-Tilden, Jim Crow, and so much more set blacks back time and again in many places in the US.  The state of the black family in America in 1880 does NOT say that racism cannot be cause; tragically, it says that in many ways racism was worse in the 1960s (during political turmoil that threatening white southern ways of life) than it was in the 1880s (when whites were "redeeming" white rights -- that was the word white southern politicians used for it in the 1870s through 1890s).

Overall, I think the problem is very complicated.  But linear historical assumptions that underlie much of what passes for sociological analysis is hopelessly off base.  That's not to say that you and others do not have some points to make.


MaggieMae

by MaggieMae on 06 September 2009 - 19:09



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sueincc

by sueincc on 06 September 2009 - 19:09

DR:  Perhaps you need to take another look.  Since January 2003, the Department of Justice has collected data in accordance with the OMB, and the racial categories are: 
White only,
Black only,
Hispanic or Latino Only, 
American Indian/Alaskan Native only
Asian/Pacific Islander only (if only one of these races is given),
Two or more races (all persons of any race indicating two or more races).

Maggs  You cannot possibly be suggesting with a straight face that  Reverend Wright is on a par with the KKK, an organization responsible for decades of  terrorizing people burning crosses, burning houses,  bombing churches,  lynching and  murdering  African Americans and anyone who they so much as thought might be an African American "sympathizer", or worse, a  "race trader".  That is not only absurd and outrageous, it's disgusting as speaks volumes of where your head is at. 

MVF

by MVF on 06 September 2009 - 19:09

I must add that any social analyst who points to statistics showing the declining marriage rate of black women during a period when the incarceration rate of black men shot up astronomically (grossly out of proportion to the arrest rate of black men) -- without admitting that the latter has quite a bit to do with the former -- is very deficient, on both scholarly and moral ground.

Is the insidious implication that black women don't want to get married?  Is this supposed to be an ugly suggestion that black women maintain different moral standards from mainstream society?  I think this is very ugly and quite preposterous.

Is the US is completely out of line with the civilized world on this and so many other matters.   We incarcerate far too many people of every color and creed, but blacks remain victims of a racist penal system.   The power elite does what it can to maintain power, and with historical phase it finds new ways to do it.   In the past few decades we have seen the incarceration rate of black males skyrocket at the same time that the crime rate has plummeted.

And then people blame black women for not marrying at the same rates as white women.  (I wonder if these same folks are willing to argue that a women's color has nothing whatsover to do with the color of the men she can meet, date and marry?)


by Micky D on 06 September 2009 - 19:09

"I said at the time that one of the best poverty programs presented was being offered by Nixon -- not a Democrat.  It was also presented by Nelson Rockefeller -- also GOP and by McGovern -- a left Dem."

Didn't Medicare and Medicaid continue under Nixon, but what programs were put into place under him?  I would think that  one of the reasons Nixon was elected was white backlash after the urban riots took place.  Well, that and the fact that the democrats had to quickly change directions when Robert Kennedy was assassinated (ironic this sentence is almost on topic) leaving the tepid Hubert Humphrey to campaign for the presidency.

MVF

by MVF on 06 September 2009 - 19:09

My system won't let me edit, sorry -- not when writing and not afterward. :-(

by Micky D on 06 September 2009 - 19:09

Is the insidious implication that black women don't want to get married? "

Balderdash.  It's the implication that they were/are penalized financially for getting married.

MVF

by MVF on 06 September 2009 - 19:09

RFS is very clever.  He asked me who said "the road to hell is paved with good intentions."  He surely meant this as a double entendre.  The first meaning is that even well-intended liberals can do harm -- with which I agree.  The second is to remind us that we are on a dog forum.

We do not know who first said "the road to hell is paved with good intentions" but we do know who first said something like it (but in French).  It was Saint Bernard.

I commend RFS for his literary grace and clever injection of dog-political humor into the thread!

MaggieMae

by MaggieMae on 06 September 2009 - 19:09


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