Sorry...it's important to have the correct facts presented on this issue. 

Molly,
Possibly you may be talking about this scenario:

 If the owner of stud dog has already granted you written permission to collect their stud dog, and semen has been properly documented (according to the requirements shown previously above) at time it was collected, stored and held on file at the storage facility, together with stud owner's signature showing proof of transfer of semen to you as new owner of this semen, (You now being listed as OWNER of this semen with the storage facility)  then said semen can be used by the SEMEN owner, without additional sign off by the stud dog owner when registering your litter sired using the semen of which you are already shown as owner.   Akc will require all such documents showing proof of same.  

If you are the stud dog owner AND owner of frozen semen from your own stud dog, then of course this is a mute point.

Perhaps I am confused, and what you write does make sense - but I just can't remember getting anything written or signed by the owners of the two stud dogs I had collected for freezing - of course I had permission, but nothing in writing that I recall - and I had no problem using their frozen semen when I bred and registered litters from them as owner of the semen.

molly

In theory, ANYONE who takes a stud to a reproductive specialist clinic can collect, evaluate, store, and potentially own the semen.

However, if THAT individual wanted to register a litter with the AKC using that semen, OR if  they wanted to sell/trade/give away that semen and the NEW owner wanted to register a litter with AKC using that semen, THEN you have to have ALL of the proper forms to do either.

An individual with a power of attorney(POA) on the stud would be the same as if the REGISTERED owner was handling/signing the paperwork.
Without the POA, the REGISTERED owner at the time of the collection would have to sign some type of form agreeing to the collection and disbursement of the semen.

The specialist reproductive clinic usually has their own version of this form..  being that they are liscensed veterinarians and have certain legal obligations/standards/ethics that they must  to adhere to.

In addition, AKC has a special litter registration form that a veterinarian/clinic MUST fill in, as the average dog owner/breeder is not going to be able to collect/ship/store/inseminate using frozen semen.... anymore than you would be able to xray/submit your own results to the OFA.

Molly, on the 2 dogs you have collected, only the one that you DON'T have the POA on should there be the extra signature authorizing you to do whatever was done.
If you are friendly with the owners of that stud, it will probably never be an issue for you..... BUT it would probably be a good idea to make sure that the form is on file with the veterinarian who did the collecting/freezing.
That way, you would not have any problems in the future if something went wrong and there was question raised to the AKC about a litter produced from the semen.



As to the subject of this thread, and the question of if the website advertising puppies from a stud they DO NOT OWN and did NOT get POA or any other paperwork signed:

Yes, they COULD have collected the dog at their vet.
No, they will NOT be able to register ANY offspring with AKC unless the REGISTERED owner of that stud at the time of the collection SIGNS some paperwork.. either from the vet clinic, or from AKC, or BOTH.



The dog world is filled with crooks/scammers/dog flippers (as Jean and I both know) so forgery could also play into any of this.

Which is why it is always good to keep track of your studs, your breedings, your puppies, and who you sold them to.

The link I provided in a previous post was the akc litter registration application for frozen semen AI breeding.  On that application they ask for the information (name and address) of the owner of the semen, and the signature of the owner of the semen.  Nowhere on that application is a request for a POA, signature or other release form from the owner of the stud dog.  This application is all you have to send in to akc to register the litter of that stud dog using his frozen semen.

The vet I use for collecting/freezing also has no spot for signature, release form or POA for the owner of the stud dog.  Only information filled out by the person collecting and paying for the collection/freezing/storage of the stud dog, ie the owner of the semen.

still not sure I agree with the above or understand why I don't get it LOL - but I do agree that if I am right, there should be more done to ensure there is no "cheating" as the person who started this thread describes.

Yes, that's the form (from AKC).

Notice that the vet has to fill in and sign it too.

In some cases, the vet providing the semen is not the same as the vet doing the inseminating.

The vet providing the semen is the one who will have on file (per their records and forms) the necessary signatures.
The vet doing the inseminating will also get some paperwork that arrives WITH the semen (if in another location) and they will have the paperwork as well.
It's implied to AKC at that point that all of the requirements and signatures are on file.... AKC is leaving that part to the individual vet clinics.

(POA isn't required on these forms.. you already are the one designated to sign... for however long the time was determined by the original POA.)

On the other dog you spoke of, however, there needs to be some type of form authorizing YOU to collect/own the semen.

Like I said, it would probably be a good idea, the next time you are at that vet, to casually ask for photocopies of the paperwork...  its a good thing to have in your possession.

Nothing would ever be done to question it, unless their is some reason down the line..
And if you have copies of these documents, it would be better than trying to come up with them in the event of some person trying to stir up trouble.

PM me if you want to see a copy of one from my vet.. as a template.
It could be that your vet forgot that detail.. or that it was done already and they have it now.

I am saying that at this vet, who I have been using for collection/freezing for many years (and who happens to be very well-known repro vet and one used by many top breeders of akc show dogs) - documentation from the owner of the stud dog is not asked for nor required on any of their paperwork.  I have filled out many forms for many stud dogs.  Most owned by myself, but two not owned by myself.  Never have I been asked for or required to provide release signatures or permission in any form from the stud dog owner.  Yes the owner's name is listed on the forms (several forms and yes dna for the dog is required along with two pictures of the dog front/side - they are definately not interested in using the wrong semen from the wrong dog) but no signature from the owner is required on these vet forms.  I have sold straws, shipped straws and litters have been registered with the owner of the semen's signature on the akc forms as you see are the only signatures that are required.   Yes the collecting/shipping vet's signature is required as well, still nothing to do with the owner of the dog being involved in any way. 

molly

Artificial Insemination The AKC will register a litter that is produced through artificial insemination, provided that the following conditions are met. For Fresh Semen: Sire and dam must both be present during the extraction of semen and the insemination of the bitch. The breeder completes and submits an Application to Register a Litter Resulting from Artificial Insemination Using Fresh Semen with the proper fee. For Fresh Extended Semen: The breeder completes and submits an Application to Register a Litter Resulting from Artificial Insemination Using Fresh Extended Semen containing the certifications completed by the person(s) that performed the extraction and the insemination. Sire must be AKC DNA certified. For Frozen Semen: The collection of semen for the artificial breeding must be reported to the AKC with DNA certification. If the semen was collected after October 1, 1998, the sire must be AKC DNA Certified. The collector/storer must be on record with the AKC as familiar with and complying with the AKC regulations for record keeping and identification of dogs. The Application to Register a Litter Resulting from Artificial Insemination Using Frozen Semen must be submitted containing the certifications completed by the owner of the semen, the owner of the dam and the veterinarian who performed the artificial breeding, with the proper fee. All sire owners must sign the form transferring ownership of the frozen semen.

From AKC's website:
http://www.akc.org/reg/artificialinsemination.cfm



Nothing you did was wrong.. you ARE the owner of ALL of the dogs (except the one you mentioned) and therefore the owner of ALL of the semen you collected.
But I am still positive that the ONE dog that you were given permission to collect needs his owner's signature somewhere on some document for you to register a litter with AKC. (using that dog's semen).

It sounds like you have a great relationship with the clinic and also with the owner of the dog.

I think the point of this thread is to educate all of the inquiring-minds-who-want-to-know..  how to spot something that may not necessarily be on the up and up.
Google is your friend...

No of course I never did anything wrong - and yes I do have a great relationship with the owner of any dog I have here for breeding, male or female - so the issue of "cheating" is certainly not my issue.  I'm just making a point that the semen owner can use semen collected from a dog not owned by him, and use that semen to advertise litters.

carry on...

molly

I did an outside stud breeding last year using frozen shipped semen from an imported Czech dog, imported to the US but owned by another person...dog's  semen was already collected and housed at synbiotics by the owner of the dog.  All forms for authorization for granting permission to use his dog's frozen semen were done several weeks in advance of the actual procedure. The owner also contacted AKC to let them know this breeding was going to be taking place, it had been approved by him, the owner of the stud,  and would be taking place within that year.  Semen and the forms for same was all ready, signed for by him, designated to me along with the name of the bitch I would be inseminating with his dog's frozen semen, and when the time came for the procedure, the semen was shipped to my vet with nothing further to be done so far as paperwork and permission by owner etc.
At the time semen arrived and procedure was completed, my vet had to fill in the collection information provided on the actual vile (container) of semen, including the name of stud dog, and the date the semen was collected from the stud.  (Note that this is NOT the date that semen was shipped to me)  This date of collection has to also agree with the date of collection noted on the semen release form that is granted by owner and released/shipped from synbiotics storage facility for my dog's insemination.  
The inseminating vet has nothing to do with the AKC part, other than filling out the information (on the AKC litter app using frozen semen), from  the vial of semen for said stud.   Once litter was born, this same form was mailed in to AKC as the litter application..