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by allaboutthedawgs on 28 March 2009 - 23:03
I think one of the problems with breeders who specialize in rare colors (aside from the disregard for the breed standard) is that the breedings tend to be focused, genetically, toward maximizing the number of pups with that color instead of letting it be a more likely by-product of a breeding that is focused toward character and/ orconfirmation traits
by VonIsengard on 28 March 2009 - 23:03
In light of a dog I worked with today, I have another point to add to the list:
BEWARE OF BREEDERS WHO LET THE PUPPIES LEAVE THE MOTHER UNDER EIGHT WEEKS OF AGE!
When pups leave mom at 6 weeks, they miss out on 2 very important weeks of social interaction that WILL impact the dog later, often permanently. That's a quarter of their life at that point, don't forget it.
BEWARE OF BREEDERS WHO LET THE PUPPIES LEAVE THE MOTHER UNDER EIGHT WEEKS OF AGE!
When pups leave mom at 6 weeks, they miss out on 2 very important weeks of social interaction that WILL impact the dog later, often permanently. That's a quarter of their life at that point, don't forget it.
by Mystere on 29 March 2009 - 14:03
Bump
by Charlie Ivory on 29 March 2009 - 22:03
by ShelleyR on 30 March 2009 - 11:03
Interesting points Chris. I always wondered why Germans don't have contracts. Now I know!
Pretty simple, really.
Animals are not manufactured products. We can only breed the best to the best, raise and care for them the best, and pray for the best.
SS
Pretty simple, really.
Animals are not manufactured products. We can only breed the best to the best, raise and care for them the best, and pray for the best.
SS
by TessJ10 on 30 March 2009 - 14:03
"I disagree completely with #1. I LIKE unusual colors of GSD. They may be faulted because of irrational thinking in the show circuit, but then I, feel the breed standards for showing should be changed, and that the whole "don't breed them" ideology is nothing more than unthinking biased horsepoop."
Totally disagree. I don't think faulting dilutes is irrational; neither do I think faulting white is irrational.
I'm with Mystere and KCzaja on this one.
Besides that point, however, is a more important one, and that point is that those colors, those dilutes, those poorly-pigmented specimens, are faulty by the standard. Doesn't matter if I agree with it or not, that's the breed standard. So to have breeders advertising "rare" or "special" colors and often even charging higher prices for these "rarities," is definitely the sign of a bad, dishonest breeder. They either don't know the standard, which counts against them, or else they perfectly well know the standard and are deliberately misleading newbies with these "rare colors," which is reprehensible either way.
Totally disagree. I don't think faulting dilutes is irrational; neither do I think faulting white is irrational.
I'm with Mystere and KCzaja on this one.
Besides that point, however, is a more important one, and that point is that those colors, those dilutes, those poorly-pigmented specimens, are faulty by the standard. Doesn't matter if I agree with it or not, that's the breed standard. So to have breeders advertising "rare" or "special" colors and often even charging higher prices for these "rarities," is definitely the sign of a bad, dishonest breeder. They either don't know the standard, which counts against them, or else they perfectly well know the standard and are deliberately misleading newbies with these "rare colors," which is reprehensible either way.
by TessJ10 on 30 March 2009 - 15:03
"...as for breeding GSDs for everyone - sure, why not? I do think that Standards schmandards is an appropriate sentiment when the standards for color are set without reason."
Without a breed standard, and everyone breeding for anything: 150 lbs., blue, liver, panda, too soft for SchH, minis for apartments - well, then, within a very few generations they won't look anything like German Shepherd Dogs. It's the effort to keep to the standard that has created this wonderful dog in the first place.
You say yourself of another breed that "it's not nearly as human-centered, not nearly as eager to please, not nearly as physically substantial as my GSDs." Why is that? Because over the decades the many breeders behind your GSD bred to the standard. The Viszla people were breeding to their own standard and guess what? They got something suited for their work but not for what you want.
Note: Dilutes were frowned upon because they were associated with genetic weakness, skin problems for one, so there was a reason these colors in this breed were frowned upon. Saying color preference was totally arbitrary simply isn't true.
Without a breed standard, and everyone breeding for anything: 150 lbs., blue, liver, panda, too soft for SchH, minis for apartments - well, then, within a very few generations they won't look anything like German Shepherd Dogs. It's the effort to keep to the standard that has created this wonderful dog in the first place.
You say yourself of another breed that "it's not nearly as human-centered, not nearly as eager to please, not nearly as physically substantial as my GSDs." Why is that? Because over the decades the many breeders behind your GSD bred to the standard. The Viszla people were breeding to their own standard and guess what? They got something suited for their work but not for what you want.
Note: Dilutes were frowned upon because they were associated with genetic weakness, skin problems for one, so there was a reason these colors in this breed were frowned upon. Saying color preference was totally arbitrary simply isn't true.
by sniffydog on 30 March 2009 - 19:03
Great thread, but I do have a concern with #6.
If I offer to meet you at a park, that means my house has dirty dishes and I haven't vacuumed the GSD hair off the floor in longer than really was reasonable and you want to meet the puppies RIGHT NOW. Besides, you get to see how the pups react to a less-familiar space than where they've been weaned, housebroken, etc. Basically, it doesn't mean a thing about the puppies, just my housekeeping talents.
Of course, the current puppies are the Golden-mix ones rescued from under the woodpile. Not sure I'm cleaning the house for their prospective owners.
If I offer to meet you at a park, that means my house has dirty dishes and I haven't vacuumed the GSD hair off the floor in longer than really was reasonable and you want to meet the puppies RIGHT NOW. Besides, you get to see how the pups react to a less-familiar space than where they've been weaned, housebroken, etc. Basically, it doesn't mean a thing about the puppies, just my housekeeping talents.
Of course, the current puppies are the Golden-mix ones rescued from under the woodpile. Not sure I'm cleaning the house for their prospective owners.
by snajper69 on 30 March 2009 - 20:03
Go see, the dam, sire, or even better the progeny training, it will clear up all the confusion, you wont care about titles and you will be more aware of what are you getting. ;)
Keep in mind just because the dam and sire are SCH3 dose not mean that your dog will have it in him to accomplish the same.
Be aware of breeders that talk too high with regards to SCH and you are looking for PPD dogs, they are not the same (most of the time)!!!
If the guarantee part in the contract is too long most of the time it means that you are getting s**t out of it. Lol
Don't buy a dog based on the promise of guarantee.
If the contract calls for supplements run, it means you will get s..ew in the end any way. ;)
Oh yeah if the breeder gets pissed off when you asked for refrences on this board and not him directly, run he got somethign to hide ;).
by Okie Amazon on 30 March 2009 - 21:03
I don't let puppy lookers come to my house on first meeting either. Known more than a few people who did this and found their homes/kennels broken into and dogs or puppies stolen a few days later. AFTER I know you some, you can come to my house.
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