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by greatestgsd on 01 January 2010 - 00:01
by freemont on 01 January 2010 - 01:01
There are 90 million pet dogs in the US. We have to remember that dogs do NOT have their place in the natural environment, that they are products of human creators often quite simply for financial gain.
We need to come to grips with the fact that just because a dog exists, doesn't mean that it should. Like any good livestock farmer knows, you are responsible for bringing them into the world- and yes- you "play god" when you decide to remove them from the world.
The GSD is a canine heads and shoulders above the rest, however, there are a good number of GSDs on the planet that should have never been conceived in the first place, and upon revealing their temperaments or by observing their structure, should have been properly culled.
Do breeders practice CULLING anymore? Or is every sperm- uh, I mean puppy- sacred?
MAYBE, this too is why the GSD is declining in quality.
A breeder or a handler is no different from a farmer. It takes grit to farm and guts to do the moral thing and sometimes the moral thing is to know when to responsibly end a life.
by Jenni78 on 01 January 2010 - 01:01
There are many many ways to go about culling and yes, of course, lack of it is part of why we have these problems. Everyone likes to romanticize the dogs in rescue, and of course there are many many great dogs in rescue through no fault of their own, but the fact is, many are there because they are not of the quality to appeal to serious people who make REAL commitments to their dogs. If people would plan a bit better, breed only for the right reasons, SELL ONLY TO THOSE WHO THEY BELIEVE IN THEIR HEART OF HEARTS WILL DO THE RIGHT THING FOR THE DOG FOR ITS ENTIRE LIFE, then we would have far fewer dogs in rescue. While there will always be exceptions, let's face it; the majority of dogs in pounds are mutts or purebred BYB dogs who were given away as pups or sold cheaply to morons with no soul and/or sense of responsibility.
Of course as a breeder I would take my dogs back for any reason. But first and foremost, it is my responsibility as a breeder to make sure that what I am producing is unlikely to end up in this situation because I am breeding a well-balanced animal, sound in body and mind.
I also feel that some really good dogs don't get a second chance because the rescues are overloaded with pieces of shit that never should've existed in the first place. Sorry to be harsh, but it's the truth. Not saying it's their fault, but not all dogs are created equal, and I vehemently disagree with doing heroic things to save dogs who are F'd in the head when there are many many deserving animals of sound mind who need our help.
This really isn't something I think we will ever solve. :-(
by Bhaugh on 01 January 2010 - 01:01
Let me start by saying that where I live Las Vegas, over 30,000 dogs were killed last year in a local shelter. I rescue shepherds and mastiffs, purebred only, many from breeders who wouldnt take their dogs back. Ive actually known breeders to dump their old dogs and dogs they couldnt place at the shelter. With all the dogs who will be put down this year for whatever reason, breeders need to be part of the solution since they obviously are part of the problem. Wouldnt it be great if owners were responsible and took care of their dogs until they found new homes. But their not so if we rescue people think the dog has a chance to find a home, we take them in.
Unless the dog has aggression issues and cant be placed due to liability, they are trainable and there is a home out there for them no matter how long it takes. Most breeders I know will take back what they breed but alot of dogs I take in come from breeders who dont care what happens to their own dogs including getting the needle because the poor sap they sold the dog to didnt understand the breed and knew what it took to keep the dog happy.
Hodie dont think for a moment that the time youve spent to help a dog hasnt been thanked even if it was just that one dog you helped. There is no better feeling than to take a dog from the shelter and have the dog KNOW that he has just be truly saved.
Steph, thanks for posting the breeders on here who dont take dogs back. I have a list of dud breeders who care little for the life they make proft from and I stay clear of them and wont refer to them.
Rlhar . I would have your dog professionally evaluated by someone who works with high drive dogs. You didnt mention your own experience with shepherds or other working dogs unless I missed reading that. Just last month I evaluated a czech dog that I was going to foster and even with 20 years with dogs, after I met him, I knew he wasnt a dog that I could handle. I even suggested having the dog put down but soon afterwards was advised that his behavior was acceptable in some lines. And until you find your dog a home, keep him away from your child. No bite is ever worth that to a child.
by Prager on 01 January 2010 - 01:01
Culling is OK in pups, but dogs are NOT a LIFE STOCK!!!!
Prager Hans
http://www.alpinek9.com
Happy Year 2010! Pet your dog.
by greatestgsd on 01 January 2010 - 01:01
by Jenni78 on 01 January 2010 - 01:01
Hans is of course correct and there are many dogs out there that people simply cannot handle, and it doesn't mean there is anything wrong with the dog. While I'm on a roll of pissing people off, let me say that I think part of the problem is the lack of knowledge some shelters have in evaluating. Their temperament tests are a joke, and IMO, they often cause the wrong dogs to be put down. If I mentally go through all my dogs, I can think of ONE who would pass a temperament test according to most shelter's standards (of course private rescues have different tests, as they are typically more knowledgeable about their specific breed). NONE of my dogs are even close to unstable. I have zero tolerance for instability.
What I am saying is this: if reasonable efforts have been made and knowledgeable (if we can still find any) people have deemed a dog unstable or not clear-headed...why not euth. that animal and open up space for a good solid dog w/proper temperament who is waiting in a kill shelter?
Unfortunately, we can't save 'em all, and it sucks to have to come up with criteria like that, but I don't see any way around it.
by Krazy Bout K9s on 01 January 2010 - 02:01
Jenni,this simply is not true...I have many GOOD to EXCELLANT dogs in rescue. One is a retired police K-9, Czech import they paid over $8000 for, they were going to pts at age 8...he is now my personal wonderful dog. Another 7 yr old Malinois retired border patrol /drug dog the wife dumped at the shelter because it got in a fight with their pit bull over some food...the 8 month old pup, that jumped on someone...many, many more stories of great dogs...two $3000-3500 dogs that were dumped into rescue, I kept one...again nothing wrong with the dogs only the owners...I could go on and on about terrific dogs from supposdly big, established, great breeders that are dumped in rescue....
The part about the morons is true....most of these dogs are not BYB dogs....and I don't do partbreds normally...
Steph
by freemont on 01 January 2010 - 02:01
There are too many dogs and not enough responsible PET owners.
And maybe, just maybe, there are too many good gsds and not enough good handlers.
There are definitely TOO MANY GSD BREEDERS and not enough quality control.
A good GSD needs a job and how many people out there can give him one? The popularity of the breed is killing it because there is an irresponsible industry "manufacturing" what is becoming a poorer and poorer product.
I am totally with Jenni who seems to have the balls and the common sense to say a poor quality dog should just be euthanized to give a good quality specimen a better chance.
Hans- a poor quality gsd perhaps was so because of environmental factors and can be turned around- but not every one of these situations will find such a happy outcome.
Obviously we need higher quality gsds, higher quality breeders and higher quality owners- a refinement, a shake-down, a renaissance on all fronts.
Let's have the moral fortitude to handle the gsd casualties of an irresponsible industry with moral dignity.
(And Two Moons- you said it best.)
by Mystere on 01 January 2010 - 02:01
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