Another Attempt to Take Over the AWDF - Page 6

unknown; how dare you try to take over this thread with facts. We are not fooled by your clear and polite manner. Bubbaboobirddog where are you when we need you to cloud and muddy the waters? 

Thank you, Unknown, for the clarification!!

Sarah

If  you plan to dual train your GSD for IPO and AKC OB titles (as do many I've trained with) do not teach your dog to lean against your left leg staring into your face as you fuss/heel. An AKC OB judge will deduct substantial points for crowding. If you don't care about a high score, then it won't be a big deal to you.

BTW my AKC CH has her BH and AD in addition to some AKC OB titles, some of us do train in both venues. I'll give you not many do that with AKC CH's but there are quite a few imported GSD's with dual titles.

Bliotzen wrote ". If  you plan to dual train your GSD for IPO and AKC OB titles (as do many I've trained with) do not teach your dog to lean against your left leg staring into your face as you fuss/heel. An AKC OB judge will deduct substantial points for crowding."



So will an IPO judge :-)


I also have a AKC obedience women down the road from me that I went to years ago to help me get my obedience better, she trains with head up total focus on handler (just like what we want in IPO). She was number 1 obedience team in the country (for AKC) went to krufts representing AKC and is a AKC obedience judge. So I think she knows what she is doing when she trains for the same heeling I do.

So I guess the moral of the story, train for perfect position with perfect attention and attitude and you can score high in either competitions.

 

"Perfect" as in the most recent interpretation of the rules of any human designed dog sport as seen through the eyes of a judge .. and that judge's vision is often clouded by politics and favoritism.  There is nothing perfect about the "focused heeling" done in IPO except that it is what a judge wants to see.  A dog walking around with it's head straight up in the air staring at the handlers face has nothing to do with "perfect".  It is a fad or a human fallacy alone and has nothing to do with a dog's natural posture or attentiveness.  It serves no useful purpose for the dog to do what is presently called "focused heeling" and that style of heeling is a fad forced on the dog over real usefullness or substance of heeling for real life situations.  Take your IPO dog for a walk using focused heeling for three miles and see how that works versus loose lead heeling for the same distance.  Likewise take your IPO dog using focused heeling through a busy pedestrian street in Germany with many pedestrians and other dogs for a few hundred meters and see how stupid and useless the current "focused heeling" is in a real life situation.

ripped right out of the clutches of clarity and reason. Bubbabird dog. Go talk to a field trial bird dog trainer and a avid bird hunter. Go talk to a man who uses dogs to herd sheep for a living. There will always be a difference in sport and real world. There has been an evolution in the real world, and in the sport world. I like to train for competition, and I like to do well. I have been doing it for longer than most and the difference in Obedience style is not what I dwell on, it is the joy and speed I witness which makes me happy.  One of the breed's beauties is it can be bred and trained for a multitude of chores. 70 years ago a bomb dog had never smelled C4.  A police dog had never smelled "X". Things change, why don't you? 

Heads up focus is desirable in the AKC OB ring. I'm talking about the dog that actually leans into their handler's leg so hard that it makes it difficult to move in a straight line. Instead of heads up focus, those dogs lean against the handler and wrap their necks around the handler's leg and never look anywhere but in their faces. That's considered crowding at an AKC OB show; dogs are not supposed to lean against the handler while heeling.. Maybe the trials I've attended aren't typical of the rest of the country, but almost every dog I've seen trialing for a BH or IPO does that.  A few push against the handler so hard that it's a struggle to keep moving in a straight line and it throws the handler off balance.

when you go to trials you will see dogs with a passing score of 70-70-70 and if lucky one with 98-98-96 or something like that. A score of 290 at a local club might be a 280 at a National event. At the AKC events I know you see a wide range of performance also. The rock group '' The  Eagles'' said once that in practice they strove for perfection, and in performance they settled for excellance. 

Unknown, not going to be picky, but a dog heeling in a "normal" trial doesn´t loose points for not watching at the handler in an ( for me) unnatural mannar here in Germany., maybe judges are different over there ?!?
This "unnormal" kind of heeling is asked on Regionals and Nationals only, and I really don´t know why.
Smiley sounds like someone who "only" wants to have fun with his/her dog. A "normal" heeling should be fine for every club trial in my opinion.
 

Blitzen wrote " I'm talking about the dog that actually leans into their handler's leg so hard that it makes it difficult to move in a straight line. "

So was I when I said you will loose point for this in IPO also.

Susie wrote"  but a dog heeling in a "normal" trial doesn´t loose points for not watching at the handler in an ( for me) unnatural mannar here in Germany., maybe judges are different over there ?!?
This "unnormal" kind of heeling is asked on Regionals and Nationals only, and I really don´t know why.
Smiley sounds like someone who "only" wants to have fun with his/her dog. A "normal" heeling should be fine for every club trial in my opinion"

At the judges meeting it is put out that in order for the exercise to be rated "V", it must be correct in all aspecs of the exercise. If the dog is not giving attention to the handler it is not correct. It may only drop into "SG" catagory if the rest is very good, but it "should" loose something.... This was from the SV Director of Judges presentation. Maybe they are not following this in Germany, but we are trying to here. The "V" score should be the genetic excellent dogs with excellent training,  the normal dog with normal training should be in the good catagory.