cattle prod - Page 6

VKGSD-  That's largely been my experience in sports as well. 

VKG...I think the opposite. Myself and a couple others showed up every single week in every freaking unimaginable kind of weather. We were consistent. We were there training. We stayed to support all the dogs. And, we never got let into the clubs (we all showed akc performance as well). But, they happily took our $50 or $60 a week for our one day of training. AND.....75% of the members weren't even THERE.....like EVER.....or even working dogs. They worked dogs like years ago (maybe even decades) but still got to be current members versus people who actually showed up to train. Or, as we were being denied, one of their IPO buddies would walk on the field and instantly get made a member.  The fact we were there weekly and our dogs got worked tells me that had room for us in the club. So, I think that whole thing is a great explanation but total BS. I honestly think it is not about finding the most committed people or dogs who can do the work (as plenty of club member dogs didn't out, couldnt take stick hits, etc and our dogs were solid). Rather, it is about finding the right people who accept the culture of IPO.

I don't want to be negative. I love IPO training. But, I am not going to lie...I am incredible bitter with the whole experience. 

Smiley don't feel bad or that you have done something wrong. ipo is a great venue and we would not have the dogs we have without it.

unfortunately it is also very political and attracts some real jerks, even people that would not hesitate to use a cattle prod on a dog if they thought it could get them an extra point.


i got dumped from ipo the day i arrived with my 10 week old puppy that my sin was he was not bred or purchased from the td or another member. before that i was a volunteer and paid to go to their expensive seminars fine.


Hope it works out for you and yr dog, don't. let anyone do anything to yr dog you are not comfortable with no matter how good they tell you they are.


dog training is not a super duper high level brain excercise like some make out is.

Smiley

How about working trials instead.  I think you have tha tin the USA too?

"Myself and a couple others showed up every single week in every freaking unimaginable kind of weather. We were consistent. We were there training. We stayed to support all the dogs. And, we never got let into the clubs (we all showed akc performance as well). But, they happily took our $50 or $60 a week for our one day of training. AND.....75% of the members weren't even THERE.....like EVER.....or even working dogs. They worked dogs like years ago (maybe even decades) but still got to be current members versus people who actually showed up to train. Or, as we were being denied, one of their IPO buddies would walk on the field and instantly get made a member. The fact we were there weekly and our dogs got worked tells me that had room for us in the club. So, I think that whole thing is a great explanation but total BS. I honestly think it is not about finding the most committed people or dogs who can do the work (as plenty of club member dogs didn't out, couldnt take stick hits, etc and our dogs were solid). Rather, it is about finding the right people who accept the culture of IPO.

I don't want to be negative. I love IPO training. But, I am not going to lie...I am incredible bitter with the whole experience."

 

Wow around here you can join more then one club if you want.  I find it strange that you where turned down from multiple clubs.  Most regular clubs are happy to take in another member and their club dues.  Makes me wonder what else was going on because it just doesnt make sense to me.

 

We have plenty of people that will not title and dont want to listen to the helper or TD.  Their dogs still get worked, eyes are rolled, they achieve nothing but still get to be members and life goes on.

 

 

It's exactly as Smiley said, Haz. It's not her. We've been corresponding for quite a while and over the months she has told me the same things she said here. I'm not a working dog person, don't really know how to help her find a club run by normal people. Maybe YOU can recommend one to her, she's in the Boston, MA area. If Smiley wants to give you the details of her sad experiences, that's up to her. All I'm going to say is I know personally of more than a few GSD owners, mostly with showlines, who wanted to train their dogs in Sch and they were made to feel unwelcome and an outsider. I was one of them. Smiley has a WL and she still can't find a club that makes her feel wanted because she's not in a clique, doesn't aspire to be and she doesn't feel the need to use electronics to train her dog. A similar experience happened to her with a well known showline breeder too.

Some GSD breeders seem determined to shoot themselves in the foot because they are so narrow minded and determined to have it their way or it's the highway. That will come back to bite the entire sport in the butt sooner or later. Pride cometh before the fall.

I've offered her the advice to forget about IPO and concentrate on AKC OB instead.

There is a club in my area that has this sort of attitude. I know about it, because the people who don't like their attitude wind up at my club!

This Saturday, I watched a lady who has competed internationally work her young Mal. The dog shows awesome potential, and is very serious in the bitework I listened to her talk about the dog afterwards, and she said she has to be very careful about correcting the dog, as a harsh correction with a prong collar will cause her to shut down.

Just some more proof that a heavy hand is NOT necessary to get to the top! 

I hope Smiley can find a club where both dogs and people are treated with the respect they deserve! They ARE out there!  I am competing iwhit a dog that's an ASL/GSL cross, our helper has a GSD he rescued from the pound, which looks exactly like a '60s style shepherd (it may/may not be purebred, but it does look a lot like the Rin Tin Tin dogs from the '50s and early '60s) and a former member put a BH on his mixed breed (Border collie cross) last year!

 

Blitzen, two thumbs up on your post!

Our former club was the same as your current one, Sunny. We also worked our dogs in agility and AKC OB.  When my AKC CH trialed for her AD and her BH she competed with Malis, rotties, Czech GSD's. GSL, GWL. She was the only ASL, no one cared. Sadly that club is no longer in existence, but there is at least one other in the area that I hear has the same attitude, they welcome all. Myself, I love to see dogs working in protection, agility, OB. I don't give a damn about their breed, breeder,  pedigrees or countries of origin.

When I first started at this club, most of the members had dobes, our TD had a bouvier, and another member had a Russian terrier. There was only ONE other GSD, which I think is a west German working line!

As for the club members, one was on oxygen, and another had to put a knee brace on before going out to train his dog. The president was a woman, and the membership as a whole was about 40% women.

I also saw a number of different training methods, including treats and clickers, as well as the traditional ball or tug reward.

Six members completed their BH last year, which was close to half of the membership.

I think that's pretty damn good!

There are some clubs that are interested only in people that will be competitive and be on board with their philosophy.  Those tend to be in the minority.  Most are happy for the members and membership dues.  This is why I find it hard to believe, unless the individual was obviously going to be difficult and negative I just cant see how this could repeatedly happen.

I train in Ontario Canada.

Sorry SunSilver but if the dog would shut down from a prong correction its suffering from a genetic fault.  Such a dog will require constant coddling if this is infact true, not a good dog and not the recipient of your typical training regimen.

Once again its not about being heavy handed, it about finding the right ballance for the right dog.  Most people that go on about shock collars and being heavy handed tend to not properly understand the principles of operant conditioning. They also tend to be substandard trainers..lol.

Fyi Theres a women at my club that claims the same thing about her Mal and thus has never progressed.  In reality the dog could handle a prong and would experience a much clearer training picture with one..removing positive punishment creates shades of grey that slow down and overcomplicate the training picture.

 

At our club we have many SLs and many training philosophies, like I said earlier you dont have to even listen to the TD just pay your dues and show up once a week or month or year.