** Steep croup/top line from top breeders ** Is this normal? - Page 6

Blitzen,
If you go back to the photos of Vanessa, You can easily see that Vanessa can be stacked to look like a ASL or like a GSL...
So much of this is all about the pose they are put in.

ASL stacks, head is unnaturally high, which forces the back to arch toward the ground.
GSL stacks, pressure on leash for dog to improve shoulder representation, legs very far back and bent causes dog to bend its back.

 

if you pull a dog's head up into an unnatural pose like most pictures of ASL do, the backs will go flat, I breed WGSL and none of my dogs have a roached back, they have placed very high on shows.

you can also get a dog to look as if it is roached if you push the back leg, the one under the dog, into the angle, the dog will raise his back

Bea is right, you are able to stack a "normal" dog either showing a flat back or a roached back.
A tired dog looks different, too ...

Even the dog in Blitzen´s last pic would show some kind of a "roach back" with a bad stack.

Don´t misunderstand me, I don´t like roached backs, for me it´s a major fault, but one picture doesn´t always show the truth.
The only way for a realistic critique is to see the dog during gaiting, if possible off leash.

@ blitzen in my newbie opinion i consider that top line normal. If one looks at the current crop of Va's bszs they all have similar toplines. The pic is more or less similar to the one Sitasmom posted ofnthe slovakia gsd. I am into the showline gsd's and this is what have become use to and what i see in all of our current champs. The pic u showed with the straight back is that of a working line or was that the type they bread back in the day and have we  then lost the plot somehow?

This is a roach back.........see yellow line

Waleed, the dog with the flat topline is an American showline male Champion, a very good one I think. That is a typical topline for ASL's. They cannot have any rise at all in their backline, they should be perfectly flat and gently sloping. I have an American Champion myself, her topline is similar to his.  I have tried a number of times to set her up to look as if her topline is roached, I can't do it. Not sure why, maybe her spine is more rigid than the German dogs? I don't think the GSL dogs always had the toplines they generally have today. I heard that a judge was responsible for that happening.

I think roaches may find the use of the term roach back offensive.  My roaches must be American as they have a relatively flat topline.  In case you were unsure German Shepherds will catch mice and rats and there apparently are suicide mice as I have seen a couple run into the mouth of a GSD .. maybe they thought it was a cave or the emergency exit??

I agree that a single picture doesn't always show the TRUTH, but when people use such horrid pictures to MARKET their dogs, that does tell me a lot about what they *like* and what direction their breeding is going.  True story.... when my dog was about 10 months old, the breeder an (at the time) owner of his sire was visiting from Germany and came to our club.  He wanted to see my dog and he was stacking my dog for me.  When I got the picture I didn't even want to show anyone, I hated how the feet had been placed and my dog had a slightly broken topline look.  Absolutely NOT how he looks standing on his own or how I would ever stack him and not a photo I've ever used.  So when I see pedigree photos or photos on breeders' pages with extreme rears, croups that look like a ski jump hill, broken toplines.... I may not instantly judge the DOG but I'm definitely wondering about the breeder/owner/whoever thinks that's a good picture or a good thing...