** Steep croup/top line from top breeders ** Is this normal? - Page 68

Ibrahim, please define "better front reach".

Is more better?
Is more efficient better?

IMO "reach" can be longer, but not as efficient.

Figured I'd throw out my bitch for you to take a look at in motion, Ibrahim.  The lead is being held out of the way, but there's no tension on it.  This is how she carries herself.

Hahha Susie, I didn't dare tell my wife or my daughter 

Sitasmom,

I got your point. By better I meant more but you are correct, more isn't always necessarily better or efficient. As Carbajal says, the more front reach is good and better till a certain point then it starts taking from efficient movement when decelaration period increases.

I heard a valid reason why Asl have more front reach, they have weaker musculation which allows more flexion of joints, that in fact could be one of the reasons. Looking at a dog like Larus one can see how strong and well defined his shoulder muscles are, they seem they wouldn't allow more joint opening. Maybe we should think seriously of this reasoning too.

Ibrahim

Xeph,

That dog's back, in trot, looks super. Its front reach is very good, in my opinion, foot is parallel to the nose but not more, which as per Carbajal analysis is the point after which deceleration becomes more and therefore efficiency decreases.

We've been hearing praise of more front reach for many years, I myself get fascinated when I see full joint open and excellent front reach which is now called by some experts "too much front reach".

Ibrahim

GSDLineage, thanks for the correction.

Ibrahim, I'll try and grab a picture of my last bitch that had "too much front reach".

I have the mother of the bitch posted above currently residing with me.  When she gaits, she drops her head a lot more, and to me, looks and feels (on the lead) to be working harder than her daughter does 

This thread has done wonders for me in terms of improving my understanding of the anatomy of our beloved GSD'S... I now somehow can see what the pro's are seeing and this was evident this past weekend where there was a breed survey and it felt really really really good knowing what the judge was saying, not just knowing BUT UNDERSTANDING!!!!!

There are however a few things that had me confused…

 1. Why do they say “straight back” when in fact it has a slight slope going to the loin to the croup.

2. What do they mean by deep chested and Good fore- and under chest?

Lastly , can any of the members dissect the rear angulation ( hocks, stifle even the underline etc) like it was done with the top-line/upper arm/shoulder?

Xeph, now THAT'S balanced movement, with good folllow-through behind, something my ASL mentor says is frequently lacking in the breed!

I heard a valid reason why Asl have more front reach, they have weaker musculation which allows more flexion of joints, that in fact could be one of the reasons. Looking at a dog like Larus one can see how strong and well defined his shoulder muscles are, they seem they wouldn't allow more joint opening. Maybe we should think seriously of this reasoning too

Pardon me for being blunt, Ibrahim, and I don't know who said that to you, but it has to be one of the most biased and inaccurate statements about any dog I've ever heard.  More reach because they have weaker muscles? Think about that and analyse it by comparing the bodies of weight lifters to those of distance runners. Who is more flexible with more endurance?

The majority of Va's are way too overdone these days to ever hack it tending a flock of sheep - short legs, bunchy muscles, big bodies, heavy heads, arched toplines, restricted movement. Most of the ASL GV's and selects aren't any better - too much angulation, wasted motion, on and on. Let's not kid ourselves if we want to really get this right. - neither of these dogs are worth squat when it comes down to doing a hard day's work. They are bred to be eye candy, not to do a job anymore. The German breeders prefer one type, the ASL another. Neither is correct no matter  how much we try to spin in the direction we want it to go.

I'm going to back off here for a while. The focus is not on canine anatomy right now.