SV to Reinstate Long Coats in 2010 - Page 7

Blitzen, Please note that I was not trying to argue with you. I just felt that you did not understand the conversation and were consistently off topic (It's a type of neurolinquistic[sp] programming - I say rose and you see an actual rose and I perceive the smell of a sweet smelling flower or perfume so we are actually talking about two different things.)

I found your last reply a bit disingenous. Yes it does snow in the Alps - again no one said it didn't. And btw I have studied the historical herding in the country and feel perhaps you should brush up.  First and foremost the type or "style" or herding varied with the part of the country and it's terrain. Thus within the breed we have dogs that can have as much eye as a BC and we have dogs w/ a natural very long wear which lends itself to bordering and we have dogs that are natural drivers. The "tending" STYLE comes out of what is called transhumance agricultural which is the movement of stock with the seasons to take advantage of better grazing.  Thus the high mountain meadows were grazed in SUMMER and in winter the shepherds and stock retreated to the valleys. A good short explanation is in this document. http://www.macaulay.ac.uk/livestocksystems/nafplio/proceedings/luick/luick.htm It is also interesting because of the map showing the various parts of Germany that used this system. One was the Swabian area (sound familiar from gsd history?)as were the -drum roll - German Alps. If you go to #3 on the page it talks a bit about it. Please note item #6 in that section about the historical size of flocks compared to today.     You might also find this page interesting in its explantion of landrace breeds which I believe might apply to many of the everyday herding dogs still found in Germany. http://www.geocities.com/horsesnewmexcom/albc.html

Oh and btw - I have trained with Ulf  WHEN I had my longcoat.

I apologize to other board members if you feel that this is off topic. I felt that incorrect information was being given on herding and needed to be corrected and I also thought you might find the links I posted interesting.

Chris, thank you for a very good explanation of the problems as seen from the SV side and how the interrelationship with the FCI complicates the issue . I appreciate the perspective.

TIG, you are right on all counts.

Blitzen - I usually go to the alps between 28 December to 15 January...And it's usually not any colder there than it is in the Appalacians around that time.

I dont think anyone is trying to pick on you...it's cold - but it's not that much different than where I go to school.  You're experience is more than welcome - but a Northern Breed is going to need alot more coat than a shepherd herding in Alp-like weather because the severity is much less.

And actually - I might need info on this - but In Switzerland they pull the livestock off the mountains during the winters and stick them down lower - at least where I am - though I dont know how much of that is because most of the part of the mountain where there are livestock is also a ski resort - and the livestock in my area are mostly cattle (The brown swiss - devil variety...you wanna see an animal with a bad temperment go play with one of those O.o)...I havent seen many sheep on the mountains there....mostly in the valleys.

~Cate

Ceph, I agee that herding dogs don't need as much coat  as sled dogs, but they do need to be weatherproof no matter what the climate.

Silbersee,

Thank you for your information. More than I really asked for and with quite an edge to it. Like I stepped on your corns or something. It was only a simple informational question which I asked because I was rather surprised to hear this news. I, too, am a member of of the SV---LG16 (although, at one time I was a member of LG15 Bayern Sud)

I do not wish to embarrass the Leistungsrichter---(I did say a schutzhund judge not conformation judge or Zuchtrichter)--by giving his name here if what he told me was wrong or inaccurate. He judges in LG 7, Ostwestfalen/Lippe. Since you seem to know the dates of the SV Delegatentage, he must have been at a Landesgruppentag, although he did not say that. Obvously, this is not something that a LG would vote on. What he told me simply was the SV had decided to reinstate long coats starting 2010 and that they could be shown starting then. While our conversation was mostly about something else, I was struck by this piece of news given in passing and wanted to know if others had heard this.

I asked the question here, because it was the easiest to do. If it were of burning importance to me rather than just interesting, I would have called up a Kormeister.

Lastly, I don't see why it is being on a "high horse" to comment that virtually everyone who responded did not respond to the request for information but chose to argue among themselves over something that was not relevant to the question asked. I did not ask "Should Long Coats be allowed" or "Are Long Coats good" or "Why did Stephanitz get rid of them" or "Can they survive a German winter" usw, usw...You of all people, should remember there was a time when this was also a place where one could obtain reliable information, from people such as yourself, to sincere questions which posters asked.

steve1:  Yea, I have racing pigeons.  I would love to live in Belgium, where the most and best competition is.  I have just recently got back into it after a twenty five year hiatus form it.  I used to race when I was in my twenties and now that I am retired, I am back doing it.

Everyone wants birds from Belgium, over here.  The joke often told here is that fliers in Belgium raise birds to race and then they raise birds with fancy pedigrees to sell to Americans.  Is it true? 

Its taken someone living in the same country as Blitzen to convince him that what i say about the weather over in Germany was correct, and it seems he now believes Maxbear, But when you live in an area and an arrogant person like Blitzen tells you you do not know what you are talikng about that goes against the grain for me

As far as i am comcerned it matters not to me if the Long Coats are accepted for breeding as i will never breed from my fellow whatever should happen, nor will i breed from the Short Coat, I did not get them for financial gain like a lot of others on here, but for the Dogs and the Sport

But one thing is very sure on this Forum, You people over there stick together on Posts, If you do not come from over there Folk like me hardly get a reply on any post we, or i for one put in, and the saying is i might as well talk to a brick wall.

Because there is hardly ever a response from you people. That strikes me as if you know it all and other s from another country know nothing , it seems you think your the Top Dogs so to speak regards the German Shepherd Breed,

But time will tell if you are right or not starting with the Next World Schutzhund  Championships, and next years Crufts

I will be expecting Dogs from the USA to be as we say the Top Dogs of the events, and remember you have the edge on all others its on your home soil, so there will be no excuses, its there for the Dog world to see

Better to let you get on with it, This thread tells me  that nothing i say is taken seriously by you folk over in the USA. so there is no point in my wasting my time posting

steve1:  Blitzen is a female.

Scondly, Americans are like those in any other country.  WE ALL think we know what is best in any given situation.  It is human nature.

I wrote on this site once about the fact that almost everyone here is a "dog person".  Us dog people are used to giving  "corrections" or "attaboys" just because of our personalities.  Very few on this site (or for that matter, any internet site) agree with what others say, even if they are correct and we know it.  It is human nature to attempt to make ourselves look "all knowing" and just a tad more intelligent than the next feller.

No need to go away or give up on this site, or on Americans.  It ain't you.  It is just human nature to disagree and squable.  Surely you can not tell me that family members do not argue, and pigeon fliers do not squable, about stupid stuff?  An argument about the weather anywhere onearth is silly, as it can easily be checked on the web.  Additionally, an argument about what the SV does concerning long coated GSD's is just killing time as none of us on this site have any say so about the matter.  Okay, maybe someone who comes to this site does, but I doubt it, and it sure ain't Blitzen, DorRight or steve1.

Anyone on any internet web site that is not moderated HEAVILY, has to have a tough skin, or they will stress out quickly and run away.

Just say your piece and argue your points with facts and personal experiences.  The "rest" of the readers on this site will know the "pretenders" from the knowledgeable.  If personal attacks come your way, just consider the source and know that when they happen, it usually means you are winning with the facts and knowledge, so "they" go another route (ie: personal attacks).  I am not saying that any personal attacks have come your way, but if you continue to visit this site, they will.  Most assuredly.

Do Right and Fear No One

As far as i am concerned i have never been frightened by anything or by anyone,

That explains it then Blitzen is a Girl. you all have the advantage of knowing who is who on this site,

outsiders have little idea with Pen names.

Women are the stronger Sex and like the last  word on anything, i can take that ok

As regards Pigeons, No' that is not excatly the truth that Belgium Pigeons are the Best

Short distance Racing is a big part of Belgium pigeons racing to 200 to300kms and the same applies to England now The reason i moved over here was because In International Races England send only about 200 birds and compete against 25.000 more from over here

Plus the English Pigeons have to break away at least 100 miles before any others and fly across France then  racing to where we  lived in England, they had 100miles of the English Channel, then fly on again inland to home Naturally it was hard to get at the top of an International Result

But  saying that England have won in recent years Two Dax Internationals

Our Family of Pigeons have been developed over 20 years of selective breeding and testing in the strongest competition it is possible to go to, they are very tough and will not give in however hard it is,

They Have Won the Grand National in England and Kings Cup

 One  pigeon of ours won the Whole Old Bird Series in the Huge National all England National Club, best co.effecient of Four Long Distance races in one season the only pigeon in over 100 years ever to do it on his own normally a loft who wins it with different pigeons

Plus they have won six Royal Pigeon Racing Awards for individual Long distance performances

they won every average possible against all England that is possible to win plus in our life we have won about 50 Provincial Races over 450 miles

 and many hundreds of 1st Prizes

Since moving to Belgium we built the Loft and Bred some late summer young birds which had no work owing to age the Next year we raced them we were Federal Champions first year racing.

 Since then they went on to do well and last year was out first year at the Long Distance International races we had 72% strike rate prizes in races 460 miles to Barcelona 700 miles

I know the Belgians, Dutch. Germans are watching us closely. and we get a lot of views on our website from the fanciers in the USA

After 57 years in the sport, the will and drive is still the same as when i started, so it is with the Dogs, Young  'Fred' goes for his BH in May

Sorry about the break in Dogs will wrap up now

Steve

Holy moley, Blitzen is a GIRL!! There goes the neighborhood.