any pics from the usa sieger show in san jose? - Page 7

If the judge can't "see", perhaps we need to have a panel of 3 judges (stationed where they all have a view) to confer and evaluate the performance tests (sort of like the OFA).

I am not familiar with the formal "Roberts Rule of Order" procedures, but as I recall, there's no USA by-law preventing USA  membership (or their regional directors?) from placing discussion of any rule changes they can dream up on the "menu" for the USA General Board Meeting. Perhaps you ought to present a motion in November.

Comparing the judging at a tiny USCA SS with the BSZS is like comparing apples and oranges--JMHO.

Then again...  The only Sieger Show any dog of mine ever suffered serious injury in during the protection performance was the '98 BSZS in Nurnberg... Anyone present will remember my Pallo getting knocked unconscious due to poor sleeve presentation, the arm suddenly dropped low to trip him when he launched for the bite, causing him to bounce end-over-end a few times and land in a deathly still heap. My dog DID regain consciousness as the helper exited, managed to and was allowed to finish the routine, and was rated Ausgebraught, but I wouldn't have been too surprised if he was summarliy excused instead. Of course he was so badly injred I had to scratch him at the stand for exam later in the day... a process which involves  significant additional expenditures for pulling after start of event and official show veterinarian's examination/excuse, BTW, not to mention 3 mos. of crate rest and treatment for his injury... 

SS

Wow Shelley. Between your story and seeing that male get tumbled over until he was crying and limping sure does worry me about showing my dogs at a SS. Did he recover mentally as well? I imagine a strong dog with a good handler would.

4pack- untrained and poorly trained are two very different things. I'd take the untrained dog any day of the week.

If these dogs are titled, yes, they should be able to heel to the blind!  Granted I might expect "some" forging, but the dogs should stay with the handler.   Ok, you are not allowed a second try say on the back transport, why is it allowed here? 

Is there  a video of Ule?

Shelley, changes in By-laws are not as easy as simply disussing a motion at the GBM (which I have no intention of attending--too far--too much money). Changes are not going to happen unless Mark P. feels there is a need for change. I suspect that all of his fellow officers think that he is doing a good job by maintaining the entries and the status quo at the Sieger Show. The need for change must be sensed from within.

I don't know what would happen if amateur videos were viewed at the GBM.

OTH, one attends NASS where the judges do chat back and forth before reach a concensus. Even then, there is favoritism for the big name breeders. For example at NASS 2006, Karen Henkel was handling a bitch who had already blown 2 of her 3 free-heeling attempts. The damned judge had the audacity to suggest that Henkel remove the bitch from the field and to return after practicing a little heavy duty obedience. No matter, when she returned, the bitch still refused to heel. 

Louise,

I am sorry I haven't told you lately, but you are such a breath of fresh air! Suddenly, or maybe it was happening all along and I just didn't see it, but it is so nice to feel that I am not alone in what I see, and how I feel in regard to all this and other issues. I think for too long many have not felt they could step up and speak their mind....I appreciate that you always have!

I really would enjoy sitting down and talking to you sometime.

 4pack,

Don't kid yourself. Look at the scores from a number of working events in this country and you will see plenty of working line dogs evidently "blatantly not ready to compete". I just talked to someone who competed at a national event and he specifically was appalled at how many were not ready to compete. To suggest otherwise is putting your head in the sand. There are dogs who are not ready to compete and it does not matter whether it is a SL or a WL. Sure dogs can have a bad day too, but many shown in these videos probably looked like they look in the video all the time and no one either cared to fix it, or knew how, or the dog was not a strong dog to begin with.

As for helper work, just look at a recent European event where no less than 6-8 dogs were seriously injured by the helper stepping on them and worse. 

As for bloat, the last four examples of bloat I know of were all working line dogs, fit, etc. And I for one, using common sense, will not work a dog and then allow it to drink as much water all at once as it wants. Neither would I do that with my child who had just been training for track, as an example. 

There is a division and there will always be, only because people want to perpetuate the division for some reason. I choose to try to bridge the gap,  not widen it.

Sucks when they don't heel. As I recall, I "set my dog up" and "reset" at least once or twice, heeling in a few circles prior to sitting at the start flag for Carol's performance at the '05 NASS in P'burgh. Ditto for Pallo every time we stepped on the field. Had I not done so, they probably would have left me.

The good news is that as long as one doesn't take too long, (interupt the schedule) and the corrections on the fur-saver aren't too vicious, one is generally allowed to do that. Unfortunately, a lot of unseasoned handlers don't know that, excited, nervous, whatever...

I have always been envious of handlers with long legs who still seem to be walking/heeling when the dog is speeding up, but nobody got away with that little trick in San Jose either. In fact even if I did have long legs.  Blatant practice of that well-worn stunt isn't gonna work in front Mark of all people. LOL Kinda like insulting the judge's tie on way to the blind: not a great first impression. Ha ha ha.

One thing I didn't see so much of last weekend as I have in the past was handlers giving all 3 permissable "aus" commands before the helper stood fast, locked up the sleeve, and their dog had "settled" on the grip. (I like to call that "pilot error.)" I don't recall anyone excusing themself and their dog that way for a change. Overall, I thought dogs' and handlers' performances were much improved even compared to as recently as last year.

SS

OK sure Hodie, there are a few dogs at the bottom at every event no matter what venue. This showed every dog but 2 maybe 3 (being gracious) had anything above PetSmart OB on them. I have never seen so many crappy dogs in all the WL events I have been too and that includes training days and all breeds.

"...as long as one doesn't take too long, (interupt the schedule) and the corrections on the fur-saver aren't too vicious, one is generally allowed to do that."   Isn't it nice to know that obedience in the heeling is not actually necessary.

"I have always been envious of handlers with long legs who still seem to be walking/heeling when the dog is speeding up, but nobody got away with that little trick in San Jose either..."  Guess you haven't watched the videos yet.

DeesWolf, I can't say that everyone appreciates my willingness to speak my mind (and possibly shooting myself in the foot). One thing that we can all agree on: we are grateful to Oli for providing us with a forum that permits the free exchange of information. If I were to say the things I've posted here on those rigidly moderated boards "of other colors", I would find myself soundly trounced, banished, or placed on "mod queue". Been there--done that--LOL.

I'm speaking up because I really don't believe that all SL dogs are not genetic weaklings (certainly, not in my experience)--just terribly misguided by their owners and breeders. I take pride in the work of my SL dogs because they are good will ambassadors for the breed.

SL breeders get as carried away with their beauty contests as WL breeders do with the breeding of "sport dogs" who work like little robots. Gawd--how I hate their high pitched, unconvincing, staccato, machine-gun like barks. Who wants to see a handler marching out on the field--looking for all the world like the "Nutcracker" with his mechanical, wind-up toy dog? You are unlikely to every see a good SL dog ever behave this way.