Breed Improvement Suggestions for the UK GSD Breed Council - Page 7

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Good post Bancroft

I did not go into the mental mechanics of a GSD AS IT WOULD BE LOST ON PEOPLE THAT THINK THAT THE BH and AD are a indicater of a dogs ability to work these are simple temperment and fitness tests, if a dog cant do these there is NO WAY it should be bred from we are  discussing the GSD as a utility working dog and the show requirements NEED to reflect this BEFORE we propagate more quiet insipid lazy dogs, this trend of breeding untested to untested has given us a heavy ,unathletic ,good coloured animal that generallly do not have the mental or physical attributes to be a GSD

look at the title of the thred please

Gustav, the Shepherd is also supposed to be beautiful and conform to the standard.  Why is it that the Germans and other European countries can produce "working" dogs that in the main, conform reasonably well to the standard?  They are not worried about putting their dogs in front of a "breed" judge.  Have you ever tried to work a "show dog"?

I have never trained for Schutzhund and know little about most of the disciplines, however, I have competed in obedience (up to B) and qualified 2 shepherds  C.D.Ex U.D.Ex W.D.  Manwork/protection, holds little appeal for me but I am willing to accept that it may have to be part of the new curriculum.  I have been training shepherds for 22 years.

Bancroft, not at any time did I suggest that a great handler could mask a weak dog but a great dog can take a less than accomplished handler a long way and that's not a fallacy!

Breeders in this country use proven working studs ALL the time, from Germany, Holland, Belgium etc but they are correctly constructed too!

What seems to be evident here, is that there's no chance of unity, you're too busy praising each other in your posts for being insulting about breeders dogs being lazy, insipid, useless lumps.  Good luck to you!

Bancroft - There is a reason many breeders do not use the working lines.  It is quite simple the majority of GSD's out there go to pet homes and the working dog, much like the Malinos are too driven to settle in these homes.

IMHO there are some breeders out there who have got the balance of temperment just right and this is proven by where their dogs go.  If a breeder can sell a litter to different types of homes, ie. the police, security services, pet and say agility or trials then this shows a balanced dog which is fit for purpose but settled enough to chill when at home.

I have friends who are in the police force and are either dog handlers or those who regularly work with and some of them have said that the Working dogs are fab out, but they are very demanding on the quiet days, this is less obvious with either the mixed blood lines or the more "show" ones.  There is no point producing dogs that cannot settle in the home with less work as then we will have more negative press and the breed will get labelled in much the way that the Rottie has suffered these last few years.

Therefore under Breed Improvements, yes construction is vital and fit for purpose is again vital but you have to remember where these dogs end up at the end of the day, and the purpose of 100 years ago is not the purpose of 2008.

As to function before form, how about health before function and form.

As for putting suggestions to the UK Breed council, I'm getting to the point where I cant see its worth the bother.  People on here seem to have their own agenda much of the time and its pretty much an US and THEM situation regarding the different types.

They all come under one breed there is not separate classifications like in spaniels and if we cannot all work together for the benefit of the breed then the breed will not improve in any shape or form.  So I guess its time for people to decide what is more important - personal agenda's or the future of the breed.

O.K. I've just spoke to John Cullen (BC Chairman) being too impatient to wait for an email reply.  He's had a great many emails and letters and thinks it may be helpful if we all email both the BC and the KC about what we want.  What he didn't have for me was an idea of content.  I think it's important that we all "sing from the same sheet" if possible???? 

Best to make it firm and concise probably but we need to get the content right... Beepy, over to you please!

Health is FUNCTION and comes in TWO forms

PHYSICAL and MENTAL

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Reason I quite agree, and I have seen perfectly fit and healthy dogs be driven to distraction with over high drives meaning that they can be worked for a couple of hours and then when put in kennels they pace all day.  To have a dog that is bright and balanced but given a body that doesnt work due to over angulation, poor hips or elbows is equally damaged.

With regard to the GSD being a working dog, yes I agree 100%  BUT   let it NEVER be forgotton by breeders that no matter how well known you are as a kennel, be it show or work, the majority of puppies from a litter go to people wanting a nice balenced PET dog.

Having trained dogs in a proffessional capacity for 30 years I am saddened by both extremes that I have seen within our breed, both craven cowards that are often fear biters & the other extreme being the high prey drive working dog, that for me has NO place in the average pet home in fairness to both the dog AND the pet owner.

Surely it should be the aim of ALL breeders to maintain the working abilities of the GSD but also maintain an ability within each dog to switch off & not behave like an animal on speed 100% of the time, this type of dog has no place within the pet home & is just filling up the rescue centres when owners find them inpossible to live with, what happened to the wonderful GSD temperament of years past who were VERY capable of working but also were calm enough to live as a family pet.         And before anyone jumps to conclusions, I breed GSD's using modern German lines producing dogs of sound stable temperaments who are much sought after by numerous Police forces and also very sought after by pet owners.

I feel it very sad that there is almost a threeway split even within the two main types of GSD ( English & German) the three differences being  show, working and pet, why can we not all try to breed a dog that fits all purposes ?????