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by VonIsengard on 13 August 2009 - 04:08
by MaggieMae on 13 August 2009 - 04:08
Thanks to those who replied with honesty.
by Slamdunc on 13 August 2009 - 04:08
before we go any further please give us your definition of "hard". You say "we all know what it means." Actually. I don't think you understand what a "hard" dog is. Until you can understand the vernacular you shouldn't use the terms.
Yes, my police dog (in my avatar) is fairly "hard" and I do demos with children in schools and preschools all the time. I bring him out to my SchH training every week. I don't do bite work because I don't like sleeve work for police dogs. I do obedience and tracking there. Before he was my K9 he was my SchH dog. He has a great temperament and I love him to pieces and he truly loves me, he's a great partner. He even has a few 'real" street bites on some real bad guys in a short time on the street.
My plan is to compete with him at the CANAM Police and Fire Olympic Games next year, then the World Police and Fire games in 2011. I may also compete with him in SchH still, we'll see about that. SchH tracking and police tracking are very different.
To make it easy for you here is my definition of a "hard" dog: it is a dog that is resilient. Meaning it can take a correction and not be adversely affected by it, or it can have an unpleasant experience and quickly bounce back with no lasting effects. The level of hardness is determined by the degree of the unpleasant experience and how quickly the dog recovers from it.
Hard is not "sharp" or "civil" or "aggressive." It is just "hard." It is one of many traits of a dog.
If I used any other terms that are different than the terms you use please let me know so we are at least discussing the same things.
FWIW,
Jim
by Slamdunc on 13 August 2009 - 04:08
Those are great pics. I actually have similar pictures of my K9 snuggling with my wife, there may be one or two of the dog jumping on me as well and snuggling. But, of course no one gets to see those pics. Don't want anyone to think my K9 is a softie, plus he'd be embarrassed if they got out he has a reputation to maintain.
Jim
by BabyEagle4U on 13 August 2009 - 06:08
by RLHAR on 13 August 2009 - 14:08
Be honest now, we all know your K9's favorite activity is running against the radar. ;)
I still want a match between him and my little girl. See who can get to that ball fastest. I say this all with a twinkle in my eye by the way.
by happyday on 13 August 2009 - 15:08
But let's address Schutzhund. Why would you even think it is OK to bring a dog that is "Hard" (and we know what that means) to a Club? Where are these dogs kept when not being exercised/worked/at a competition
MaggieMae - I have to ask if you are uneducated to schutzhund and don't even care about it - then why do you even make your comments?
It is the responsibility of every dog handler to control their dogs. Just as you walking down the street.
At schutzhund clubs it is no different - I haven't been to any clubs that don't have practices of keeping dogs crated when not training them. They are not running free. The so called "Hard" dogs are kept in the same place as the "Soft dogs" in the back of the SUV..."Crated".
As far as your comment about "why would a Hard dog be excepted at a Schutzhund club" that is stupid too. Schutzhund is a sport - club's, at least not mine, don't audition the dog to see if it is soft, hard, or "medium.... A club is a group of people that get together with a common interest. In this case schutzhund. It would be an audition of the people rather than the dogs.
The audition would be between people that belong to the club and the new person visiting to possibly join. Do the training methods and personalities fit together? It is the people you have to worry about biting each other more than the so called "hard" dogs taking a bite out of somebody else....
I would appreciate if you would stop bashing schutzhund methods, trainers and followers, etc since you have no knowledge of it - I would find it an honor to train with alot of the people on this board such as Slamdunc and to be on the same field with a dog such as his....
Happyday
by MaggieMae on 13 August 2009 - 16:08
Don't get you panties in a wad !! I read an article that made me sick and angry. I asked about it. Some people state that it does happen, some state "not so much anymore", and some deny that it even happens. Even Slamdunc said that he has left Clubs where he doesn't like their "training methods" -- but he did not explain exactly what those methods were.
I am not bashing Schutzhund; I, personally, do not want to be involved in it -- is that bashing? I am trying to understand what is going on. I don't want the German Shepherd known as a "Vicious Breed" -- it is already on some Insurance Companies' lists and insurance can be denied to homeowners for owning a GSD. I don't want that to happen. I don't want the GSD to have the bad reputation of a Pit Bull.
However, I did ask a question to which no one will respond. I will ask again. If you personally have witnessed "hanging a dog" or told first-hand by a person that uses that Method, would you allow that person to be in your Schutzhund Club?
Additionally, regarding the people who post here who do this to a dog -- do "you" people post your sympathetic comments when you read a dog has died from the heat in a car, was gunned down by a Police Officer for no apparent reason, was malnourished and sickly, etc. -- did you condemn Michael Vick for his abuse of his dogs? I also, asked: What is the effect on the dog's brain when it is deprived of oxygen by "hanging it"? No one has responded to that question.
I just find some people to be such hypocrites when they may have knowledge that this happens and stay SILENT about it, and then use phrases like "for the Love of the Breed" and "for the betterment of the Breed." Really ??? !!!
by sueincc on 13 August 2009 - 17:08
Why would anyone want to answer your questions when you have already made up your mind without even knowing what you are talking about in the first place? As far as hanging a dog, YOU were asked if you watch The Dog Whisperer? WELL??? Do you think his methods are cruel and unusual? You have been throwing around the phrase "hard dog" and you don't even know what a "hard dog": is! A hard dog is one who is resiliant maggs, a dog who can handle pressure, so of course most of us adore and prize our "hard dogs", and of course we would train them in schutzhund, why not?
You happened upon one persons website, an ex clerk for the Ventura PD, who offers NO proof of her alegations on her website, but you jump right in with both feet wanting to turn this into some sort of major issue as if you have uncovered the secret of the century.
You can't beat or hang a dog into being a great schutzhund dog, or a great police K9, and if you knew ANYTHING about either schutzhund or police K9's you would understand how illogical your thinking is. Are there instances when a dog might have to be hung? Yes! But not the way you imagine it, I'm sure. Helicoptering was NEVER a training method, it was something done by assholes who lost their temper with their dogs.
There are assholes in every walk of life including dog training. I knew a big time AKC obedience competitor who used a sharpened pinch and helicoptered her little min Poodle when she thought no one was looking. Does that mean the overwhelming majority of AKC obedience club members practice hanging and helicoptering their dogs and that it is considered acceptable training methods to AKC? Of course not.
by happyday on 13 August 2009 - 17:08
If I was at my club and saw a dog hung up on a tree - Yes I would say something - would I say something if that dog was out on the field and turned to bite his handler and the handler hung up him at that moment by his leash - No I wouldnt say anything...
Would I say something to some one that helicoptered, hung by a tree and then let his wife kick the "juice out of his balls" - yes I would say something---- --In fact - I would kick that mans balls juice out"....
I think that ever one did answer the question - you just didn't listen to what they said....
GSD are a strong breed - and they already have a bad rap with some - but with saying they are a strong breed - you have to control them as such - and gain respect --a strong hand-- there are abusive people all around and the couple that was in that article were very disturbing - I think they are out of the norm - ---I just got offended by your comments that relate all K9, schutzhund etc to be just like these people - --since you don't associate with our sort of people - why would you lump us all together with that couple?
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