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by wrestleman on 14 April 2010 - 19:04
Kimmelot- no one said not to use crates for training, house breaking etc. But not to live in. That in and of it's self is cruel. I use crates all the time, to transport my dogs to training , and some times when i travel with 2 dogs I have one in crate other in back seat of the Suburban. I will stop along the way walk them and trade places with them. Those damn wire rabbit coops are not appropriate living quarters for dogs. How in the hell can you or anyone stand up for her after the condition of the dogs they found at her home. The fecal matter , the un feed animals. This kind of behavior is dealt with in the DSM IV psychiatric diagnosis manual I am sure, as well as the behavior to take up for people who exhibit these behaviors.
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by Sock Puppet on 14 April 2010 - 19:04
Wrestleman,
What happened with the lightning strike? If you dont want to put it up here can you pm me the info.
What happened with the lightning strike? If you dont want to put it up here can you pm me the info.
by Mystere on 14 April 2010 - 19:04
quote by Kimmelot: "I would like to remind everyone that You Me and Everyone else can be brought under such scrutiny of the law and how its inturpreted , and have the same thing happen to you as what happend to this poster."
BS! Double BS. "...you, me and Everyone" does not have DOZENS of dogs (five and a half dozen) barking, pooping, peeing etc. in a yard. So, NO, it is decidedly NOT something that could happen to anyone of us. The most irresponsible, self-absorbed bitches (of either gender) I know could not end up in the same position.
Tess--I do leave water in the crate.
But, it is for a bitch who needs to be "contained" at night, so I can sleep with both eyes closed.
BS! Double BS. "...you, me and Everyone" does not have DOZENS of dogs (five and a half dozen) barking, pooping, peeing etc. in a yard. So, NO, it is decidedly NOT something that could happen to anyone of us. The most irresponsible, self-absorbed bitches (of either gender) I know could not end up in the same position.
Tess--I do leave water in the crate.
But, it is for a bitch who needs to be "contained" at night, so I can sleep with both eyes closed. by Sock Puppet on 14 April 2010 - 19:04
Ok guys Whisper does not need to be slammed, she has a point and no matter how misguided it might be she is a human with feelings so please lets lay off her and get back to the abuser.
by Keith Grossman on 14 April 2010 - 20:04
"You can look up Dept of Ag rules and regs on minimum housing requirements for research facilities. I did once to check them out but don't have them at hand right now. When I get a chance I can look them up."
We aren't talking about research facilities and the animals in them do live in those enclosures.
"Basically it is common sense: A dog must be able to stand up, turn around, AND BE ABLE TO CRAP AND NOT HAVE TO LAY IN IT IF THEY DO CRAP, and have access to food and water. Good lawdamassie, that makes sense, right?"
It makes sense except for the part about constant access to food and water. It is perfectly fine to restrict a puppy's access to water when he will be left alone to prevent his needing to eliminate when he can't be let out. Additionally, I would never allow any dog unrestricted access to food 24x7 and people who do end up with fat dogs because they eat out of boredom. When my dogs are fed, they get 15 minutes to finish their food or it is discarded and they wait until the next meal. I never have to discard food and my dogs are healthy, athletic and lean.
"If your dogs must live in boxes during the day - you have too many dogs to care for... PERIOD."
Bullshit. I currently have one dog who is kept in a crate during the day for his own protection. A 16 week old puppy can not only destroy a lot of property in a day, he can topple things onto himself, eat poisonous plants or other toxins, chew on live electrical cords, etc. Anyone who thinks that risk is acceptable is irresponsible, in my opinion...and most knowledgeable dog people agree with me.
"You have too many dogs, any of you, if you cannot provide them with appropriate housing (not a shipping crate) to live in during the day. A simple kennel is inexpensive, allows the dog to move about, crap, drink, and have a bit of visual stimulation. It can provide protection from any type of weather and be made theft proof (if your dog would allow itself to be stolen). Think about the life of a dog sitting in a crate all day... kinda like you sitting in the trunk of your car, day after day, after day after day. Not something I would do to my "best friend". (And I own 12 dogs)"
This is, again, bullshit and indicative of someone who assigns human characteristics, motivations, thoughts and emotions to dogs. They are dogs, not people and anyone with a fundamental understanding of dog behavior knows that they live in dens, not in cages. The ability of a dog in a kennel to crap and walk a few feet away from it does not satisfy his need to not soil his immediate environment. Additionally, your assertion that an outdoor kennel, properly built, is either inexpensive or safer than the confines of a crate in the house is misguided. Dogs can and do escape outdoor enclosures, get poisoned in them, get struck by lightning, etc. and it is impossible to make one theft-proof. And yes, it's pretty easy for anyone to steal a 16 week old pup.
If, as you claim, a dog is more comfortable in an open area than an enclosed space, why have all of my adults continued to use their crates long after they were old enough for me to remove the doors? Why do dogs prefer laying with their heads under the coffee table rather than out in the middle of the room? Why, when it came time to whelp her litter, did my dog, Bella, opt not to use the nice whelping box that was provided for her in the center of my 24'x36' great room and decide instead to begin the process in the wood box adjacent to my fireplace?
We aren't talking about research facilities and the animals in them do live in those enclosures.
"Basically it is common sense: A dog must be able to stand up, turn around, AND BE ABLE TO CRAP AND NOT HAVE TO LAY IN IT IF THEY DO CRAP, and have access to food and water. Good lawdamassie, that makes sense, right?"
It makes sense except for the part about constant access to food and water. It is perfectly fine to restrict a puppy's access to water when he will be left alone to prevent his needing to eliminate when he can't be let out. Additionally, I would never allow any dog unrestricted access to food 24x7 and people who do end up with fat dogs because they eat out of boredom. When my dogs are fed, they get 15 minutes to finish their food or it is discarded and they wait until the next meal. I never have to discard food and my dogs are healthy, athletic and lean.
"If your dogs must live in boxes during the day - you have too many dogs to care for... PERIOD."
Bullshit. I currently have one dog who is kept in a crate during the day for his own protection. A 16 week old puppy can not only destroy a lot of property in a day, he can topple things onto himself, eat poisonous plants or other toxins, chew on live electrical cords, etc. Anyone who thinks that risk is acceptable is irresponsible, in my opinion...and most knowledgeable dog people agree with me.
"You have too many dogs, any of you, if you cannot provide them with appropriate housing (not a shipping crate) to live in during the day. A simple kennel is inexpensive, allows the dog to move about, crap, drink, and have a bit of visual stimulation. It can provide protection from any type of weather and be made theft proof (if your dog would allow itself to be stolen). Think about the life of a dog sitting in a crate all day... kinda like you sitting in the trunk of your car, day after day, after day after day. Not something I would do to my "best friend". (And I own 12 dogs)"
This is, again, bullshit and indicative of someone who assigns human characteristics, motivations, thoughts and emotions to dogs. They are dogs, not people and anyone with a fundamental understanding of dog behavior knows that they live in dens, not in cages. The ability of a dog in a kennel to crap and walk a few feet away from it does not satisfy his need to not soil his immediate environment. Additionally, your assertion that an outdoor kennel, properly built, is either inexpensive or safer than the confines of a crate in the house is misguided. Dogs can and do escape outdoor enclosures, get poisoned in them, get struck by lightning, etc. and it is impossible to make one theft-proof. And yes, it's pretty easy for anyone to steal a 16 week old pup.
If, as you claim, a dog is more comfortable in an open area than an enclosed space, why have all of my adults continued to use their crates long after they were old enough for me to remove the doors? Why do dogs prefer laying with their heads under the coffee table rather than out in the middle of the room? Why, when it came time to whelp her litter, did my dog, Bella, opt not to use the nice whelping box that was provided for her in the center of my 24'x36' great room and decide instead to begin the process in the wood box adjacent to my fireplace?
by spartshep on 14 April 2010 - 20:04
If everyone, without exception, would stop posting to these threads, this person would have nothing to talk about and no one to talk with. You are fueling her fire with each and every post...!
by Schaferhunden on 14 April 2010 - 20:04
spartshep I don't think so.She has posted a set of encyclopaedia's
by michael49 on 14 April 2010 - 20:04
NoCurs, I agree with you 100%, in my opinion if you have to leave your dog crated all day or night then you shouldn't own a dog. I know everyone doesn't agree with us on this point, but I really don't care, I share your feelings about it. Even though it has become acceptable and not viewed as abuse, in my eyes it is animal cruelty plain and simple
Michael
Michael
by Sock Puppet on 14 April 2010 - 20:04
Wrong she will continue to post even if it is to herself, it is what she does. Sometimes people talk to themselves and even answer themselves. I understand your opinion and I am sorry I disagree.
She will not go away until banned and then she will come back as another user if she doesnt already have other user names.
She will not go away until banned and then she will come back as another user if she doesnt already have other user names.
by Keith Grossman on 14 April 2010 - 20:04
It really isn't about her at this point; it has evolved into the sensible and appropriate use of crates. Hers was neither sensible nor appropriate.
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