Inferior Quality VonWilhendorf Dog - Page 7

I have a puppy out of a von Willengorf female - I have to say, he is AWESOME!......he is completely craxy for a ball,  leather flirt, tug, sleeve or anythig else.....

OK, Michael, here's your answer.

Yes. Yes, it is 'acceptable' that there are ALWAYS going to be some dogs that are going to be born who have this particular structural fault. ALWAYS going to be.  ALWAYS have been. ALWAYS are.
And it happens in show lines, in working lines, in European lines, in American lines, in Canadian lines. It happens in German Shepherd Dogs, it happens in Siberian Huskies, it happens in Collies, it happens in Rottweilers, it happens in any breed that is not achondroplastic as it's standard stature (Bassett Hounds, Dachshunds, Corgis, etc.).  Just because you haven't seen a working line dog with this fault doesn't mean they don't exist...it just means you haven't seen one. As Jenni mentioned, her Capri is cowhocked (though not to the same degree as Natalee, granted), and she couldn't be considered anything BUT working lines.  So there--now you know of a specific working line dog that is cowhocked...but she is FAR from the only one of her kind.

It's 'acceptable' because there are no perfect dogs. NONE. Would you have it that all dogs that are born with this particular structural fault are destroyed as soon as they are old enough that it is identifiable, then?  And if so, then where do you set the bar as to which faults warrant destruction, and which can be overlooked?  Whether you agree or not, whether you like it or not, the genetics for this particular fault (along with various other faults) are in every single German Shepherd Dog in existence.  If you consider that *any* dog that actually *has* this particular fault--cowhocks--no matter how slight, should not be bred, then you definitely should consider a different breed of dog.  Otherwise, it's possible you could end up with a cowhocked pup some day, or a pup that carries the genetics to produce a cowhocked offspring, and clearly you would consider that to be completely unacceptable.

Pita1, what's interesting about the comment she left on that site is this statement from her:
"She was shipped to me at the insistence of Mr. Henkel"

How does one find themselves being shipped a dog against their will??

Hey there's a marketing technique I haven't heard of... If you can't sell the pup just open the phone book pick a name and ship them the dog wether they want it or not, and obviously if you pick the right person they will even pay you for the dog they didn't want shipped to them in the first place.  Wow can't believe we all overlooked that idea!

I mean be careful if anyone takes her putting her on your property not knowing what she may have walked in there. She would need a quarantine period with no contact with other dogs and put in an area that can be cleaned before any other dogs use it. I have imported dogs before and I do not quarantine them, but I trust the breeders. This one with her 3 breeds and the way she treated this poor girl scares me. Doubtful she'll let her evidence go and doubtful she has a case. Breeder who has been in the breed for years says she's ok, she has been shown before, his vet will say she's ok, her vet will say she's not. Where can it go except she did slander him on a public forum. I believe it's "libel" since it's in writing.

Doing great, LMH. How about you?

No doubt that Henkle's have produced many outstanding dogs over many years. I can't think that John would want one of his dogs to be living where it is not wanted.

I watched the video....
This young female is simply overweight, under-exercised, thick framed, juvenile & cow hocked.  NONE of which screams out "in pain or crippled". NONE of which means financial woes in therapy.
There is no reason that she could not be a healthy, loving companion to anyone.
Spend TIME on her, with her, for her.....and she should/could be a special dog.
No breeder produces dogs *without imperfections*...BS to anyone who says different.
Being cow-hocked does not mean inferior or poor quality in any breeding or bloodline.....it simply is... what it is.
If she had the proper exercise, balanced appropriate nutrition, and care & time from an owner....her "problem" will be less noticeable...because "she" would be in better physical condition...all over.
This "condition" is within the breed of both WL & SL.....and is & can be a fault....but it is no way a "death sentence".    *I too have owned a cow-hocked female (RIP).*....and by no means was she inferior or crippled.
JMO

Michael, you're not making sense. I said it "may improve." How is that saying it's normal or even hinting that it's a good thing. If I said "cancer can be cured in some cases" would you then allege I'm saying cancer isn't a problem and is acceptable?   I have read and reread and I just don't see how you're reaching that conclusion in any way.

I think people just don't really know enough about conformation to understand how fine a line it is and how slippery the slope is  once you start breeding for extremes. Additionally, it's all a matter of opinion; there are always going to be people who say something is something that another person insists it isn't , and vice versa. When I say Capri is cow-hocked to certain people, they tell me I'm crazy- she's perfect. (I also get emails asking me why I'm opening her up to public criticism, lol...I don't care...there's little to fault her on and I think it's important to be honest and open for educational purposes) Others say it's so slight that it doesn't even count, and others say her structure is flawless and her legs are angled exactly as they're supposed to be and I only see a difference because her structure is so superior to most WL dogs. Some say slight cow hocks are a hint that they'll rate very highly on hips. Some say it means they're dysplastic. See my point? There is no steadfast rulebook of conformation, nor a machine we can throw a dog in and get a report of "flawed" or "not flawed." It's all opinions.

With regard to the danger of bringing this dog home, I see it like this: I walk my dogs- usually all of them, every day. I take them to the park w/my son and I. They go swimming sometimes in a retention pond. My boyfriend comes home from working at other people's houses where they have pets.  How much more likely is this dog to have something communicable than any other dog we encounter on our travels? How much more likely is she to bring illness than any visiting humans who lie and say they haven't been to any other breeders' homes?  In short, I guess I really don't see a huge difference in my dogs walking all over and coming home to the backyard as this dog; the only difference is this dog has a face and name, whereas all the ones we encounter by walking in their tracks are easier to not worry about.

Hexe, I'm not talking about any dog that is cowhocked, I see a small difference between cowhocked and on the verge of being crippled. I don't care what you say, if any breeding program is producing some dogs that can't walk properly  then in my opinion there's a problem. You don't have to agree with me,and I don't have to agree with you, simple enough.I realize there are no perfect dogs, missing teeth,soft ears, bad temperament,ect. are hardly comparable to a genectic fault that makes a dog look crippled. Maybe it's just me, but when I see a dog that has to be several months old before its able to walk without looking like it's struggling to keep it's balance, I see a problem. Write me off as a lost cause, you'll never convince me that this is exceptable.I've owned gsd's for a little over 50 years and have seen thousands of puppies and grown dogs. I can say with 100% accuracy that I have only seen cases this extreme in showline dogs period.Maybe you should consider another breed if you see this as acceptable.