techniques to improve my dogs grip? - Page 7

vk4gsd
You do not need to remind me that your State in the USA is bigger than the whole of Belgium; I have said that same thing on this Forum several times. However this tiny Country is one of the very best when it comes to Dogs Sports; But that is besides the point as well. The point is that you put the thread on here to be talked about, and i said you or anyone would not be allowed on the work field not correctly dressed to do Helper work, Clubs are insured over here and no insurance would pay out? plus the Helper is very inexperienced. and again no handler without experince should be helper to his own Dog, a poor helper can ruin a good young Dog very easily, However i do not think you are the type of person to listen to anything negative unless you are being praised, and i am not praising the sort of work i have seen in the Videos? The Dog is not at fault in any way just the way it is being handled as said again you need an experinced Helper to bring the dog on, and start from the basics it will be quicker in the long term
Steve1

Hmmm.  Grips are largely genetic.  The way you play with your dog, however, would promote a non full grip.  When he gets a full grip, you must go limp.  You must feel his power.  Eventually through thousands of repetitions, he will understand, full grip and pull....helper gets weaker and I WILL win. Tug work same.  

Simple solution.  Go join an IPO club.  A seasoned training helper will fix the grips.    Learn and start over and get the basics.
 

Peter
Excatly as i said? the helper in these videos will ruin a possibly good young dog? the problem today is that anyone can put on a sleeve and think they are a helper. It takes years of practise to become a great helper. Over here there are some helpers used specially to bring young dogs on they know what to do and when to do it. Plus they know what tools needed to help the Dog, meaning types of sleeve etc,  This Guy is just hit and miss? but hell his ego is above the young dogs welfare. Get help from someone who knows what they are doing or do the dog a favour and forget it
Steve1

OP is located in Australia, not the US.  Hard enough to come by good helpers and available training clubs in the US, much worse prospects in Australia, so the OP is at a significant disadvantage.

vk4gsd, if you intention is to have the 'most correct' type of bite from your dog, as such would be defined in the sport venue, then your best bet would be to go back to the beginning and start over with this dog, and build a foundation for him that will permit you to teach him how you want him to bite.  Armin Winkler has some good articles on the subject that are available on the web, if you're the type who can take the written word coupled with some photos and apply that information in real time.  If, however, all you really are looking for is a dog that can bite for real when the situation calls for it and the law permits it, then why worry about style points? A real assailant isn't going to scoff because the dog's got a 3/4 bite on his arm...work on targeting so you know the dog will know how to pick his spot and latch on to it, and worry less about how full the grip is.

Hexe
No where here have i read that the Op lives in Australia, He mentioned in reply to me the State that he lives in is bigger than Belgium; so i summised that he was talking about the USA. Most Places are bigger than Belgium this country being a part of the low lands of Holland.
However the way he has gone about  the training of the Dog is what gets me. Being dressed correctly for one, there is no excuse for not wearing the right clothes for Helper Work; You do not take these dogs lightly when doing protection work. If there are no clubs or help for the OP in his area then he is on a hiding for nothing, for he cannot go no where whatever he does
Steve1

steve1, I didn't know where the OP was located, either, until I looked at all his videos; it probably would have been helpful if he had mentioned that from the start, so anyone trying to give him suggestions could get an idea of what resources were likely going to be available to him.  As for the helper's suiting up correctly, I have to admit that I have seen some in the US working with just a sleeve and a pair of jeans--but those have been VERY experienced helpers who can read a dog well enough to avoid the dog having an opportunity to do them any damage--and the fellows shown working the OP's dog clearly don't have that skill inherently [though some of them probably could learn it]. 

It's true that the OP is probably never going to enter this or any other dog in a trial--especially since there presently aren't any held in Australia, unless something has changed recently--but that doesn't mean he should abandon his efforts to teach his dog good bitework. He's interested enough in doing it to have made a start, and while he certainly has might rough edges when it comes to communication, he seems to be making an effort to improve the dogs work by asking for suggestions.  Because of the distances involved and limitations, it's most likely that he won't be able to undo everything the dog has already learned that's wrong for what he's trying to do, but if he learns where his mistakes have been with this dog he should be better prepared to start off the next one correctly.  And it doesn't cost anyone anything for the trying, so what's the harm?  Since the OP isn't going to need to worry about point deductions, he has more leeway than someone trying to train for competition in the sport under similar circumstances, so it's worth a shot...

[I've also heard that the worst thing you can say to an Australian is that they can't do something, as their entire country has flourished on the basis of having to learn how to accomplish things without the conveniences that were readily available to folks doing the same things elsewhere. Telling them something can't be done is just a different way of saying you're challenging them to figure out how to make it work in their conditions. And they usually will come through.]

Hexe
He is of course entitlited to do what he wants. However in his circumtances not wearing a proper outfit to do the helper work is paramount to being stupid or simply not knowing what could happen. However your remark that being Australian and saying they cannot do something is laughable. What do the people have in Australia that people in the USA, China, UK, or even  Timbucktoo lack. I am an Englishman; and i do not believe if told i cannot do something? i undoutablly prove them wrong but that is just the way i am not because i an an Englishman, but because i am me. It is not Creed, Breed Colour, or where you are born that denotes a person. it is the individuals that are different in all walks of life? Hexe i have fought along side people of different countries, It is the Man himself which proves the point not the country he was born in,
My final on the Helper work dress
Over here you would be told to leave the work field in front of who ever is there if a Helper came on nor suited up properly and it has happened. around a year ago Judge Rinus Bastiaansen told a Helper it was a hot day, Go and get proper kitted up or you will stay off the work field and that in front of several hundred people, and he is probably the best there is in Belgium as Koremeester they do not come any better. That,s it period they are not playing games. i have seen things go wrong even when wearing the proper suit Perhaps some of you Guys treat it as a Game? but over here it is a serious Sport and they know how bad a dog can maim if taken lightly.
Steve1

Steve, what is with you and correct attire?? (***Mod Edit***)
dog was too young to play when this vid (below) was taken, hope the attire on the dogs and the people will give you some clue, but you will prolly remain clueless on anything other than correct gentlemen's attire.  

yes my dog does this about every other day, clip was truncated due to perceived animal welfare issues. these are real dogs dude and my
gsd has to do this shit every other day, i wish i could take you and your dog out for 3 days and give you a lesson on grip, these dogs come off you won't be walking out in one piece if you can walk at all.

my dog already does paid man work in tough environments, ALL MY DOGS PAY FOR THEMSELVES THRU WORK IN MULTIPLE VENUES,     (***Mod Edit***)


as hex said, a dog gets hold of you with teeth down to the gum-line you wont looking to yr score-sheet to calculate the quality of the bite.


and yes hexe schuts is banned in most states here, the sport is of no real significance since the show crowd supported the ban. the best players hide their training behind closed doors literally. they travel vast distances to compete very occasionally.

 (***Mod Edit***)



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AjwKiHQmFSc&list=TLkp-p0s98hxk


 

vk4gsd
Temper,  Temper.
Now if you had told us folk where you lived and the problems then i for one may have replied a little differently but as you well know i thought you lived in the USA, However no matter where you live there is no excuse for not wearing the proper gear for Helper work.  Best thing now Sonny is to take a nap then go and train your dog but take a box of band aid plasters with you in case.
I think all the things the Guys have said to you will fall on deaf ears, you are not the sort to take any advice however well the advice was meant to be.
If your Government will not allow Dogs Sports then Fight them for the right to do what you want to do? But know it seems if the powers to be shout then the public keep quiet, show them that you will not be taken lightly.
Now Me, i have trained in the IPO sport not done badly in my time at it, still learning which is best ways to do things my  female is being aimed high, that is the only way i know to go in any sport i never play at it She will go for the Belgian Championships then hopefully get selected for the WUSV team 2014 that is the goal if she is good enough then great, if not and she does not get selected then she will be breed a litter of puppies whatever happens she will fight every inch of the way such is the way she is.
 In the past i have trained Guide dogs for the Blind helped to supply around 10 pups for that purpose plus train them so far with before passing them on, and trained and competed winning around 20 competitions for Sheep Herding and every single time in each sports bringing the Pup up from a 8 week old Puppy. Nothing fantastic but i did what i wanted enjoyed it and stopped doing the Sport or whatever when i wanted but one thing i never did was finish as a loser.
This is my last reply to you personally vk4gsd, you can rant on and say what comes out of your mouth, But because of your shortfall of not saying where you came from and the situation it is you who bought this on not me. i speak to what i think and know in this case to be right it is meant to help not the other way round but your ego will not allow your eyes to read that fact
Steve1

- Grips are largely genetic. The way you play with your dog, however, would promote a non full grip

Great comment Peter!

Kim