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by bubbabooboo on 03 December 2013 - 12:12
I don't see anyone in the "dog world" being ruled by a European group who didn't suck up to or join a European group out of their own free will. The AKC and the GSDCA as well as most dog breed clubs in the USA are independent of the FCI, the SV, and the WUSV. If the FCI, VDH, SV and WUSV imploded tomorrow I am pretty sure that the AKC and the GSDCA along with almost all of the American breed clubs whether AKC or UKC would soldier on just fine. The USCA and the AWDF wanted to be suck buddies with the FCI and now they must play by FCI rules if they want to be invited to FCI events as guests. The GSDCA, GSDCA-WDA and the USCA are members of the WUSV and likewise must play by SV/WUSV rules. The DVG plays by DVG, FCI and VDH rules. The Europeans aren't ruling anyone .. the Americans joined up with them and if the Europeans decide to change the rules the that is not in the American's hands to control. There are 3.49 million GSD owners in the USA who don't care in the least about stick hits or IPO so when someone on this forum references the "dog world" what they really mean is "my little broom closet in a corner of the dog world" and not the real dog world.
by susie on 03 December 2013 - 13:12
Joanro, it´s NOT the SV, it´s NOT the VDH, and it´s NOT the FCI, it´s the LAW.
The only reason, why we ( in Germany ) are STILL ALLOWED to do IPO, is because of the amount of people involved in this kind of sport - still too many potential votes for the political parties...
BUT dog sport as a whole is changing, people want to do fun sports like agility, obedience, or flyball, we loose members year after year.
WHY do you think SV started BH, or OBEDIENCE? There ALWAYS is a reason...
What do you think will happen as soon as we do have less than 100.000 members ( SV, DVG, BK, and so on ) ??????????
It´s easy to blame the club, but you should take a look behind the curtain.
The only reason, why we ( in Germany ) are STILL ALLOWED to do IPO, is because of the amount of people involved in this kind of sport - still too many potential votes for the political parties...
BUT dog sport as a whole is changing, people want to do fun sports like agility, obedience, or flyball, we loose members year after year.
WHY do you think SV started BH, or OBEDIENCE? There ALWAYS is a reason...
What do you think will happen as soon as we do have less than 100.000 members ( SV, DVG, BK, and so on ) ??????????
It´s easy to blame the club, but you should take a look behind the curtain.
by Ibrahim on 03 December 2013 - 13:12
but you should take a look behind the curtain
Susie, my Mamma wouldn't agree to that, she would argue " if they wanted you to see what is there, they wouldn't have closed it"
Susie, my Mamma wouldn't agree to that, she would argue " if they wanted you to see what is there, they wouldn't have closed it"
by susie on 03 December 2013 - 13:12
I think, Bubba often is a little bit puzzled, but in this case he is right - you are able to declare your OWN rules, you are able to print your OWN pedigrees, and you are able to make your OWN regulations - as long as the requirements are NOT LESS than the German requierements, there would be no problem,trials and breed surveys would be recognized for sure.
But - DO YOU REALLY WANT THAT?
A lot of people, at least on this board, aren´t interested in regulations at all ( including Bubba ) - they are able to recognize a good dog by themselves, they don´t need trials or breed surveys.
But - DO YOU REALLY WANT THAT?
A lot of people, at least on this board, aren´t interested in regulations at all ( including Bubba ) - they are able to recognize a good dog by themselves, they don´t need trials or breed surveys.
by susie on 03 December 2013 - 13:12
Just saw it, Ibrahim - your Mamma is a wise woman 
by Gustav on 03 December 2013 - 14:12
I agree Susie, I think a lot of people on this board can recognize a good dog without title or breed surveys( but not without working the dogs), and I also think there are even more titled and breed surveyed dogs that shouldn't be bred. Joan is right about the breed survey rung has been lowered to lowest rung, regardless of what "type" of dog this benefits, it doesn't benefit the breed.....unless you change standard and omit working out of description of this breed. This holds true for WL. SL. Czech,DDR, Or any of the lines. We should change the standard to comply with the changing of title and survey requirements.......that way people won't be misled thinking they are acquiring a strong noble dog and often receive very fragile pets.
by Gustav on 03 December 2013 - 14:12
I don't think the future bodes well for the hardness and resiliency of the breed to remain intact.....I hope I am wrong but I see the breed completely pet for all intents and purposes in 25 years. The loss of stick hits, straight wall, gunshots, padded stick, remotes, and pinch collars all all contributing factors along with breeder values. If you think this is far fetched, you could find good hard working stock from domestic American breeders thirty years ago.....today it is almost nonexistent. The breed can turn into a pet breed!
by susie on 03 December 2013 - 14:12
I wrote: "A lot of people, at least on this board, aren´t interested in regulations at all ( including Bubba ) - they are able to recognize a good dog by themselves, they don´t need trials or breed surveys."
Sorry, Gustav, this was irony, nothing else.
Most of the people breeding "German Shepherds" in the US don´t even know about the correct temperament of this breed.
It´s easy to talk about quality without any proof... and 30 breeders knowing what they do don´t change a breed with 40.000 newborn puppies every year in your country.
It´s up to you to change the rules, but as I said earlier, the vast majority isn´t interested, and this statement includes minor health tests.
Sorry, Gustav, this was irony, nothing else.
Most of the people breeding "German Shepherds" in the US don´t even know about the correct temperament of this breed.
It´s easy to talk about quality without any proof... and 30 breeders knowing what they do don´t change a breed with 40.000 newborn puppies every year in your country.
It´s up to you to change the rules, but as I said earlier, the vast majority isn´t interested, and this statement includes minor health tests.
by susie on 03 December 2013 - 15:12
We ( in Europe ) already made a lot of faults - why don´t people learn out of it instead of buying our 2. choice or retired dogs?
by Hired Dog on 03 December 2013 - 15:12
Suzie, buying second rate Euro or retired dogs is easier then trying to "grow" them here. Gustav is right, so is Bubba, this is all moot because in 20 years time, not just in the USA but all over the world, the PC crowd will have eliminated ALL dogs that can actually bite a human.
Look at what happened to Dobermans and Rotties, Bouviers, etc, all gone. Sports that have/had any sort of bite training will be gone within a few years, thats reality. You can organize, protest, bitch and complain, but, its inevitable and its so because dog people accepted practices that they KNEW would not help...lowering the jumps, taking out the gun, and so on...
Of course when you remove hard to do exercises from the sport, you also dont need to breed hard dogs anymore, so, the temperament of dogs bred today is that of a "sport dog", a social animal that everybody can handle. Ehh, you get the picture...the end of all dog sport is near and with it the dogs that we once knew, if we are old enough to remember them.
Look at what happened to Dobermans and Rotties, Bouviers, etc, all gone. Sports that have/had any sort of bite training will be gone within a few years, thats reality. You can organize, protest, bitch and complain, but, its inevitable and its so because dog people accepted practices that they KNEW would not help...lowering the jumps, taking out the gun, and so on...
Of course when you remove hard to do exercises from the sport, you also dont need to breed hard dogs anymore, so, the temperament of dogs bred today is that of a "sport dog", a social animal that everybody can handle. Ehh, you get the picture...the end of all dog sport is near and with it the dogs that we once knew, if we are old enough to remember them.
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