Improving the breed - Page 7

The LC's I've known and owned have not had any better structure or temperaments than their stock haired litter mates. The coat hides more faults. A stock hair is essentially WYSIWYG. Some think LC's have more substance but it's actually more coat that makes them look that way.  Most breeders I know evaluate their long coated puppies by first wetting them down so the hair lies flat. There are  some long coats  with better temperaments than some stock hairs and vice versa. IMO coat length has nothing to do with brains, beauty, and good health.   

A long, soft coat would be a detriment for a tending dog while a dog with a long, harsh, standoff coat would be able to survive without a lot of human intervention - removing burrs, ice balls in the winter, trimming feet. etc. I hope the judges pay as much attention to the texture and the quality of the guard hairs and undercoat as they do the length.

My experience is that LC make excellent family pets, and do well in obedience trials. Though, I have seen the occasional LC in working dog capacities, it has been very infrequent. 

Most  serious trainers may not want to deal with the grooming.

If a longcoat has the undercoat, then is it´s wrong to breed it with a GSD with normal coat, if the dog in question has other good qualities? This I guess is a longcoat, was used some on breedings for his workingability and health,
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=446996-sajkes-jycke






Another longcoat I´m familiar with was one of the more succesfull working GSDs in recent years in sweden,





 

I have a long coat, and though I'd prefer a stock coat, the grooming needs aren't much different at all.  I don't bathe or clip, it sometimes makes the nails hard to dremmel and when she sheds it doesn't just fall out like my stock coat, whom I brush anyway, it has to be brushed out.  Considering I brush my dogs when they blow coats anyway, it really isn't much difference.  It takes a few hours longer for burs and things to fall out than my stock hairs, but otherwise it really isn't much different.  I certainly don't go out of my way to groom her any differently.  

Your LC must have the correct harsh guardhairs, Zdog. Mine didn't, he had a coat with a silky texture similar to a golden that laid flat, no undercoat to speak of. If I didn't keep his pads and ears clipped, he matted in a few days. Bathing him was a nightmare, he stayed wet to the skin for days unless I dried him with a dryer. I did all that at first, but it got old fast, so clipping those areas was just easier. I loved that dog, he was my heart dog and I almost died myself when he died at only 7 1/2. I think coats are beautiful and I'd love to have another one day. However,  I would never again have another GSD with a long, SOFT coat. I don't want all that grooming anymore. One with a harsh coat that shed water and didn't mat would be fine. I don't think all buyers understand how much work goes into keeping a dog with a long soft coat well groomed.  I sure didn't. My dogs are housedogs now so I like them to be well groomed.

Like Blitzen said:

Behavior and temperament - no difference between stock- and long stock coat
Structure - no difference

Grooming - A LOT OF WORK
Living and working outside day by day - almost impossible ( and I do own a long stock coat for more than 7 seven years now )

Sorry, but these dogs are not suitable for herding or street work in rain or snow.

i've been wondering why this discussion has turned toward coat length??????  the issue is improving the breed.  JMHO, but what we need to be
focusing on is nerve strength & working ability.
pjp

My long-stockcoat female has a very harsh coat, I have zero problems with iceballs on paws or matting, every once in a blue moon I'll pull out a tiny mat from the soft hair at the base of her ears.  It is a little more grooming (more brushing when she blows coat and more rinsing when she plays in the mud) but overall her coat is very hardy to the outdoors, I groom her when I groom my stock coats, she does not need it any more often.  I do think her coat provides her more protection than the stock coats do on my other dogs, she is more temperature hardy, more comfortable laying on rough/hard surfaces and if my dogs were attacked by another animal I know that animal will reach the skin a lot faster on my normal stock coats.  
  
Across many species and breeds of animals there are long coats that are monsters to groom and there are long coats that are virtually no-grooming-ever-needed.  Not all long coat types deserve to be thrown under the bus.  


I will say this, before I ever had a long coat I had never had a desire to own one, in part because I had groomed many rough collies and other longhair breeds and didn't want to live with that type of grooming needs.  But someone gave her to me, I consider her a birthday gift, and now I absolutely love the long-stockcoats, I would have more dogs with her beautiful hardy coat in a heartbeat.  

I also own an long stock hair male GSD.
My dog does not require any extra grooming. He is not matting at all. He runs thorough the grass: tall, short, spear grass, woods, etc...no problems what so ever. Yes, he will catch 1-2 of those weird spear grass's but I am always able to pull them out without any extra effort. As a matter of fact his dog house is filled up with dry hay which has some of dry spear grass in it and he is not picking up those or having any skin infections from it (thanks God). Obviously problem is with bur (burr) type grass/weed but I believe every type of dog has problem with those, no matter what.
We went camping/hiking in the Rockies for several days in altitudes over 2000 meters (6500 feet), we had sun, rain, snow...no problem what so ever. Can you imagine a dog that is literarily on the run 12 hours a day with no stopping for 3 days in a row (except for peeing and bigger stuff) and still asks for more....that is him when hiking/camping. However once occasional inside a house he turns completely off, laying quietly in his corner. I swear he must have some switch somewhere and knows how to regulate it, but I'm not able to find it :D
He is an outside dog, so sun, rain and snow are not causing him any issues. He is not getting wetter than regular stock hair dogs during rain or snow.
I am wondering if any of your standard coat dogs could sustain living outside during winter like mine does.....please bare in mind that cold wetter here reaches -30 Celsius (-22F) and below with ease and lasts for several weeks. No bashing on this one please as obviously he has an insulated + heated dog house, but  sometimes I wonder if he is a little bit crazy when he lays down on snowy cold days for hours refusing to go into a dog house.

I posted all of this not to brag about my dog, but to point out that not all  long stock hair GSD have environmental limitations like described in some of the previous generalized posts.
Cheers!