If you had a Magic Wand.... - Page 7

I don’t ask for a high standard…I ask for a minimum standard. We discuss the breed and where it’s at…and I was just pointing out how every single person on here has a different idea of what the perfect GSD should be so it’s no surprise that the breed is all over the board. It’s also extremely interesting how each person has already owned or currently own their perfect GSD. Basically…we’re all doing exactly as the breed should be, yet we’re all doing different things. It’s very interesting when there is a written standard and a lot of literature from the founder to guide us, yet we all do what we want to do anyways.

I, for one, BW, do not claim to own, or have owned, my 'perfect' GSD - the opposite, I've pointed out at least twice on this thred alone, I say that there ain't no such animal.

 

What I try to avoid, frankly, is the unspoken sub-text in these discussions: that only if a dog is breed-worthy TO THE WRITER, i.e. ticks all THEIR boxes, is it a dog that is worthy of being called a GSD, or that it can't mean anything special to its owner because it lacks one or more factors that someone else considers essential.

So, there is an implication that I for example cannot say any dog is a good example of the breed because I do not / have not worked or trained that dog in a rigidly prescribed set of circumstances, and to some folk that is all that counts.

My perfect dog is a dog that does everything I as of it no matter what the job . Preduces offspring with the same frame of mind . I really care what other people want out of there dog . If want a dog to show get one if u want a WL to track do that if u want a pet get one . If your dog fills your needs are healthy strong well then thats the perfect dog for u . The problem is people are always searching for the almighty and it more than likely does not exist. Imo that why everyone is doing something different to get the perfect dog . Bw I would still like to c your dogs if you have any pictures because I do like the standard u set from what I read from u

BW, I admit I love Veronika. I didn't breed her, so I am not nearly as hard on her and more accepting of her faults.  I don't know anyone harder on my own dogs in terms of deciding who measures up and how, and anyone who knows me (and/or has worked my dogs) can attest to my being my dogs' absolute toughest critic (when I say "my" own dogs I mean dogs I bred ,not dogs I bought, because obviously I felt the ones I purchased passed inspection). I have loved PLENTY of dogs that I never bred for a myriad of reasons and loving a dog does not mean that you cannot see faults. I love my son, too, but I won't tell you he's the 2nd coming of Christ.

Testing, unfortunately, while it helps, doesn't eliminate the problems you're describing. If a breeder is the type who sees what they want to see or caters to those who seek to change the standard or are set in their view of beauty, they're going to breed that way. I've seen plenty of ignorance and wishful thinking on and off a SchH field. How about the people who worked so hard to get a subpar dog to title that they feel they owe themselves a breeding? No system is perfect.

Hundmutter, Mithuna is speaking from a place of inexperience. I stated the age of Veronika in that photo to help with assessment. A really experienced person could likely guess within 3 weeks how old she was, anyway. Chests are not deep and developed at 5 months, lol, and heads are going into the "too small for the body phase" around 6 months. Regardless of her being my dog, I can look at her objectively and say while she doesn't knock your socks off for her raccoon-eyes, super dark sable color and bobblehead, she is a very correct little girl, and the type I would expect from that sort of breeder (70+ yr old German with a ton of experience under her belt). Since there are no glaring defects right off the bat that eliminate the dog from breeding, you continue to assess the important stuff- temperament, working ability, and health. So far, alles gut :)  

 

 

LOL at BW, there is nothing wrong with people favouring their own dog, that doesnot make impact on the breed,
what makes an impact on the breed is every breeder running to breed the latest champion, flavour of the day dog that scored highest points on latest trail, regardles if its good dog or good match to their female

Look at last WUSV winner, regardless if it is good dog or not, Im not judging that , he wasnot one of the favorites before WUSV, now how many of the people that breed him now, would have bred to him when he would have been 5th place or 7th place

so we can fairly say people breed position on podium and nothing more, as different WUSV outcome would have given differen direction in breed

Very good point Duke flavour of the month . How many of those dog that won the WUSV have one it more than 1 in the last 10or so year's honest question high points means a lot of pups nothing to do with pedigree all about point's🙈🙈

Big time agree with Duke.

Top trainers produce WUSV winners just as much as genetics do. That training, unfortunately, isn't passed along in the genetics. So long as people breed subpar females to trendy males you'll have the current status quo.

Yup…and all those high points dogs have more progeny placed in “real working venues” than any breeder on here. So what’s the difference? You all want to talk about how many dogs you’ve placed in “real working venues” and how terrible sport is, yet those sport dogs have produced more “real working dogs” than you have…kind of interesting. Want to know the difference? Those breeders don’t need to talk about how many dogs they’ve placed here or there, they have easy to access proof of what they’ve produced. The WUSV theory is also not completely true. Last year’s WUSV champion is in the United States and gets bred to less than dogs that haven’t accomplished nearly as much. You’re oversimplifying and borderline fear mongering (for lack of a better term) the truth of what actually happens. Plenty of people breed to other dogs out there, most in the United States are breeding to the closest “top dog” even if that dog finished 40th at nationals or if it didn’t even show there at all.

And Jenni…you’ve written out exactly what everyone that chooses not to follow a standard says…the minimum standard isn’t the end all be all so I choose not to do it. The truth is…you can still sell puppies at a very good price without doing the minimum testing and therefore you don’t do it. For instance…it gets much more difficult to sell puppies in the United States out of non health tested (mainly hips) parents. You might get away with it for a while at $800 a puppy or something but it won’t last long. So you OFA your dogs because it’s basically the minimum standard for breeding a dog in this country and selling it for a decent price that makes it worth your while. Temperament testing isn’t on potential customer’s lists as something that needs to be looked for. Even if it is, a savvy breeder can easily talk someone’s ear off about how great their dogs are and they would never breed something that isn’t good. Oh and look at the pedigree…there are plenty of Schutzhund titles 4 generations back which means that the puppies they’re breeding can definitely work. The standard is very very low at the moment and it’s not going to move because people can make a lot of money breeding to that standard. If we were to increase the standard, and anything below that standard was now not a very profitable venture…you’d see a huge shift in the work being put into dogs. By the way…I’m not talking about you in particular, but a general you as all breeders in the United States and other countries.

Here is a dog I really like in temperament and in conformation. He’s not one of mine:

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=720647-gunar-vom-kellnerhof

Here are some future 'perfect' gsd... To duke's point, they are better than offspring of wusv champ stud I owned.

 

 

BW, how in the bloody hell do you get "Jenni…you’ve written out exactly what everyone that chooses not to follow a standard says…the minimum standard isn’t the end all be all so I choose not to do it. The truth is…you can still sell puppies at a very good price without doing the minimum testing and therefore you don’t do it."

out of my statement:

"Testing, unfortunately, while it helps, doesn't eliminate the problems you're describing. If a breeder is the type who sees what they want to see or caters to those who seek to change the standard or are set in their view of beauty, they're going to breed that way. I've seen plenty of ignorance and wishful thinking on and off a SchH field. How about the people who worked so hard to get a subpar dog to title that they feel they owe themselves a breeding? No system is perfect."


Quite a leap you're making to show yourself correct, LOL.