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by Jenni78 on 29 January 2010 - 23:01
Gee, has anyone considered leprosy?
C'mon.................this is getting ridiculous.
C'mon.................this is getting ridiculous.
by SabrinaT on 31 January 2010 - 10:01
UPDATE:
Vet Visit:
Sam went to the vet on Saturday and he said she is a little better, but she still has some fluid in her abdomen (though not as much as before) and her weight is still down.
Her temperature is normal.
We asked the vet if it's possible to do a Barium X-Ray (to rule out a blockage) and he said he can do that on Monday though he still thinks whatever the test results it leads back to a heart problem.
We also asked about re-doing the bloodwork, which he said isn't really necessary as the bloodtest was done two weeks and he said that's not enough time for the results to change dramatically. Nonetheless, we said we'd like to repeat the bloodtest to see if the white blood cell count is down and to make sure the kidney / liver function is still normal.
We also requested a Vitamin B12 Shot and the vet gave another round of medecine (Enrofloxacin, Lasix, and Hepavite) for us to give until we bring her for the tests on Monday.
Sam's Condition:
Sam is still doing ok, though she hasn't really shown any further improvement since Thursday (when she seemed to be improving very well).
On Friday, she was urinating often and drinking fairly well (though I was still giving Pedialyte) and she was coming outside following me and the other dogs a lot.
She managed to eat about 1 Can of Science Plan AD as well, though her appetite is still not great.
On Saturday, Sam was still drinking quite well and coming outside a lot trying to play, but she was very tired from the visit to the vet and seemed more subdued / tired.
I'm not 100% sure about how often she urinated as she was lying outside often and it is difficult to monitor.
Again, though her appetite was still poor, she managed to eat a bit more on Saturday but I still haven't seen any stool, and while it is not impossible that I missed her going, it is very unlikely.
So, again, thank you all so much for the advice and kind words.
And if anyone has any advice / thoughts on Sam's latest vet visit, it is greatly appreciated.
And wish us luck for her tests on Monday.
Vet Visit:
Sam went to the vet on Saturday and he said she is a little better, but she still has some fluid in her abdomen (though not as much as before) and her weight is still down.
Her temperature is normal.
We asked the vet if it's possible to do a Barium X-Ray (to rule out a blockage) and he said he can do that on Monday though he still thinks whatever the test results it leads back to a heart problem.
We also asked about re-doing the bloodwork, which he said isn't really necessary as the bloodtest was done two weeks and he said that's not enough time for the results to change dramatically. Nonetheless, we said we'd like to repeat the bloodtest to see if the white blood cell count is down and to make sure the kidney / liver function is still normal.
We also requested a Vitamin B12 Shot and the vet gave another round of medecine (Enrofloxacin, Lasix, and Hepavite) for us to give until we bring her for the tests on Monday.
Sam's Condition:
Sam is still doing ok, though she hasn't really shown any further improvement since Thursday (when she seemed to be improving very well).
On Friday, she was urinating often and drinking fairly well (though I was still giving Pedialyte) and she was coming outside following me and the other dogs a lot.
She managed to eat about 1 Can of Science Plan AD as well, though her appetite is still not great.
On Saturday, Sam was still drinking quite well and coming outside a lot trying to play, but she was very tired from the visit to the vet and seemed more subdued / tired.
I'm not 100% sure about how often she urinated as she was lying outside often and it is difficult to monitor.
Again, though her appetite was still poor, she managed to eat a bit more on Saturday but I still haven't seen any stool, and while it is not impossible that I missed her going, it is very unlikely.
So, again, thank you all so much for the advice and kind words.
And if anyone has any advice / thoughts on Sam's latest vet visit, it is greatly appreciated.
And wish us luck for her tests on Monday.
by AKGeorgias mom on 31 January 2010 - 14:01
I don't have as much canine experience as others here, but kudos for asking your vet good questions. I would definitely push for follow up blood tests for two reasons: 1. to see if there is any improvement, and 2. to make sure that something isn't getting worse. My son has a complex medical problems, and liver and kidney function can actually change quickly during a serious illness. If nothing else, it's reassurance that those organs are functioning okay.
Good luck, and best wishes for a full recovery.
Opal
by Sunsilver on 31 January 2010 - 15:01
We also asked about re-doing the bloodwork, which he said isn't really necessary as the bloodtest was done two weeks and he said that's not enough time for the results to change dramatically.
Pardon my language, but what a bunch of BULLCRAP!!
IF Sam were a patient in a human hospital, the vet would be checking bloodwork AT LEAST every 72 hours! I'd also want to know what her hematocrit is like, to see how well hydrated she is. If she's taking Lasix, and not drinking enough, she can get dehydrated very quickly.
Since her appetite is still not back to normal, and she hasn't pooped, I'd be leaning towards an intestinal problem at this stage, rather than a heart problem. Of course, there is always the possibility it's both!
Pardon my language, but what a bunch of BULLCRAP!!
IF Sam were a patient in a human hospital, the vet would be checking bloodwork AT LEAST every 72 hours! I'd also want to know what her hematocrit is like, to see how well hydrated she is. If she's taking Lasix, and not drinking enough, she can get dehydrated very quickly.Since her appetite is still not back to normal, and she hasn't pooped, I'd be leaning towards an intestinal problem at this stage, rather than a heart problem. Of course, there is always the possibility it's both!
by Jenni78 on 31 January 2010 - 15:01
B.S. When I was in the hospital, they pulled those tests 2-3x a DAY!!!!
by hodie on 31 January 2010 - 15:01
Hello Sabrina,
To answer your PM questions....
1. Yes, insist on bloodwork if you can afford it.
2. Just because the dog has not had a stool in so long, it is imperative to have a barium x-ray done if a normal x-ray does not clearly demonstrate stool is passing (and it might not be good enough to do so). The price you quote is about right and yes, the purpose of the x-rays are to track the barium as it moves through the GI tract. If there is a blockage, it will show. I don't think it would be very useful for the discovery of a uterine infection however. And that still needs to be ruled out in my opinion.
3. The fact that this dog is 18 months old makes it less likely that there is a cardiac issue here, UNLESS you have missed something in the past. Based on what I read, this has all been going on for about 3-4 weeks now? How was the dog prior to becoming ill? Did you ever note her breathing hard when she should not have been, or tiring quickly? Anything is possible, but if she had some congenital problem, you likely would have suspected something was wrong long ago. Could something have changed for the worse? Sure, including an infection in the heart like pericarditis, as an example. She could also have had some problem that damaged her heart recently. So though I don't lean towards this diagnosis without much better diagnostic tests, it is not impossible.
4. The fact that her temperature remains normal is good. The fact that she is up and about some, is good. The lack of appetite is worrisome and not eating certainly will make her less energetic. However, if she was always normal in her eating before, and now is not eating, that is a huge warning sign. So is a lack of stool at this point. If her gut or GI tract is not ok, whether twisted, blocked or inflammed, she will not want to eat. Is there any vomiting or retching at this time? She should soon have a stool. If not, one must really worry about something very serious internally. And that will kill her if not taken care of immediately.
5. My suggestion is that if the barium x-rays and repeat bloodwork are not definitive as to what is going on or show nothing out of order, that you do need to take this dog to a better clinic where a major work up can be done. It is possible that it will take time for her to get back to normal, but at this point, I don't think we can say she is back to normal at all. It becomes an issue then of whether you are willing to take the chance that she is just slow to recover from whatever caused this, or that the supportive care is masking what really is going on. in that case, there is every possibility that she could crash at some point in the future and you might not be able to save her at that point. I think it is really important to get a proper and confident diagnosis as to what is wrong here. But I know the difficulties of your situation. However, a five hour drive, more money spent, etc., might be the best option since there is not dramatic and clear improvement.
Keep us posted.
To answer your PM questions....
1. Yes, insist on bloodwork if you can afford it.
2. Just because the dog has not had a stool in so long, it is imperative to have a barium x-ray done if a normal x-ray does not clearly demonstrate stool is passing (and it might not be good enough to do so). The price you quote is about right and yes, the purpose of the x-rays are to track the barium as it moves through the GI tract. If there is a blockage, it will show. I don't think it would be very useful for the discovery of a uterine infection however. And that still needs to be ruled out in my opinion.
3. The fact that this dog is 18 months old makes it less likely that there is a cardiac issue here, UNLESS you have missed something in the past. Based on what I read, this has all been going on for about 3-4 weeks now? How was the dog prior to becoming ill? Did you ever note her breathing hard when she should not have been, or tiring quickly? Anything is possible, but if she had some congenital problem, you likely would have suspected something was wrong long ago. Could something have changed for the worse? Sure, including an infection in the heart like pericarditis, as an example. She could also have had some problem that damaged her heart recently. So though I don't lean towards this diagnosis without much better diagnostic tests, it is not impossible.
4. The fact that her temperature remains normal is good. The fact that she is up and about some, is good. The lack of appetite is worrisome and not eating certainly will make her less energetic. However, if she was always normal in her eating before, and now is not eating, that is a huge warning sign. So is a lack of stool at this point. If her gut or GI tract is not ok, whether twisted, blocked or inflammed, she will not want to eat. Is there any vomiting or retching at this time? She should soon have a stool. If not, one must really worry about something very serious internally. And that will kill her if not taken care of immediately.
5. My suggestion is that if the barium x-rays and repeat bloodwork are not definitive as to what is going on or show nothing out of order, that you do need to take this dog to a better clinic where a major work up can be done. It is possible that it will take time for her to get back to normal, but at this point, I don't think we can say she is back to normal at all. It becomes an issue then of whether you are willing to take the chance that she is just slow to recover from whatever caused this, or that the supportive care is masking what really is going on. in that case, there is every possibility that she could crash at some point in the future and you might not be able to save her at that point. I think it is really important to get a proper and confident diagnosis as to what is wrong here. But I know the difficulties of your situation. However, a five hour drive, more money spent, etc., might be the best option since there is not dramatic and clear improvement.
Keep us posted.
by SabrinaT on 01 February 2010 - 00:02
Ok thanks Kathryn, yes that's exactly what we were thinking; repeat the bloodtest and do a Barium X-Ray and if the results don't show anything definitive we will take her to KL (though I still don't think taking Sam to KL is a great option, it is the best we can do for her).
Sunsilver, and Jenni - yes thanks, that's exactly what I thought regarding the bloodtest and that is why we insisted on it.
And thanks as well Opal for the kind words.
Well, I'm off to the vet now.
Wish us luck.
Sunsilver, and Jenni - yes thanks, that's exactly what I thought regarding the bloodtest and that is why we insisted on it.
And thanks as well Opal for the kind words.
Well, I'm off to the vet now.
Wish us luck.
by SabrinaT on 01 February 2010 - 05:02
UPDATE (IMPORTANT):
We took Sam to the vet this morning (10:00am our time) to do the Barium X-Ray and repeat the Bloodtest. We were told it would take quite some time to do (more than 3 hours) and we would have to leave Sam at the vet, which we did.
At 12:00 o'clock I called to see how she was doing but was told the vet is in the x-ray room, and could I call back at 2:00.
Then at 1:00, the vet calls me and says he has taken the original 'still' x-ray and it is very cloudy (more so than the last time we x-rayed Sam around two weeks ago) and this means there is more fluid in the abdomen as well as the lungs and that he cannot do the Barium as nothing will show on the x-ray because of all the fluid.
He said that the fluid is worse than last time the x-ray was taken despite Sam being on Lasix for most of this time. Apparently, this could be a result of a heart problem / kidney problem / liver problem, he says it could be anything.
So, he asked us to come and get Sam and bring the previous x-ray so they can be compared.
So, I am going to get Sam now and discuss with the vet what we can do from here (if he still reccomends going to KL then we will as it doesn't seem like we are able to help Sam here) and I will post back here what he says.
We took Sam to the vet this morning (10:00am our time) to do the Barium X-Ray and repeat the Bloodtest. We were told it would take quite some time to do (more than 3 hours) and we would have to leave Sam at the vet, which we did.
At 12:00 o'clock I called to see how she was doing but was told the vet is in the x-ray room, and could I call back at 2:00.
Then at 1:00, the vet calls me and says he has taken the original 'still' x-ray and it is very cloudy (more so than the last time we x-rayed Sam around two weeks ago) and this means there is more fluid in the abdomen as well as the lungs and that he cannot do the Barium as nothing will show on the x-ray because of all the fluid.
He said that the fluid is worse than last time the x-ray was taken despite Sam being on Lasix for most of this time. Apparently, this could be a result of a heart problem / kidney problem / liver problem, he says it could be anything.
So, he asked us to come and get Sam and bring the previous x-ray so they can be compared.
So, I am going to get Sam now and discuss with the vet what we can do from here (if he still reccomends going to KL then we will as it doesn't seem like we are able to help Sam here) and I will post back here what he says.
by AKGeorgias mom on 01 February 2010 - 15:02
This link is for humans, but since the technology is the same I think it still applies:
www.radiologyinfo.org/en/info.cfm
While an abdominal ultrasound wouldn't work with excess fluid in the abdomen, a barium x-ray should work just fine. I say you go to KL as fast as you can get there because this problem seems to be beyond the scope of this vet's experience. It sounds like you have many questions that the vet hasn't answered , and some of what he's saying doesn't quite ring true. Good luck.
Opal
www.radiologyinfo.org/en/info.cfm
While an abdominal ultrasound wouldn't work with excess fluid in the abdomen, a barium x-ray should work just fine. I say you go to KL as fast as you can get there because this problem seems to be beyond the scope of this vet's experience. It sounds like you have many questions that the vet hasn't answered , and some of what he's saying doesn't quite ring true. Good luck.
Opal
by hodie on 01 February 2010 - 22:02
I agree with Opal on her post. Please update us when you can Sabrina. And unless there is dramatic improvement in this dog, she needs more experienced or specialized vets I think.
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