Anomaly outside of widely held belief about Defense Drive - Page 9

keep the null hypothesis and show us your dog.

Sorry, hntrjmpr, it seems like none of Gustav's or Duke's or BM's or Susie's or Joan's posts etc has had any effect, if we're keeping on repeating the "defense is weak" mantra in multiple ways like a broken record !

I personally have dogs that are high on prey (with excellent nerves) and high on defense (with bedrock-solid nerves and never indicating any "stress" or "weakness" or "scaredness"). Both of them have high fight/hunt. But 2 totally different training approaches needed with both dogs, as Gustav clearly articulated above. Both are extremely calm and confident in threatening situations, and both of them will bite (and have bitten) for real. However, if the stakes were really, really high, I will take the defense/fight/hunt guy along !

what do you expect from somebody testing hypotheses with a sample size of one. excuse me, sample size two -- we mustn't forget the much maligned bed ornament. luckily, pearson and neyman don't have to witness this self-serving perversion of their work.

Folks, Whether the dog is primarily prey oriented or defense oriented ALL dogs have to be trained to be effective for work. I have seen old school trainers that have taken today's strong prey oriented dogs and really decreased their effectiveness because of training methods that did not work to the dog's strengths and produced much conflict. Conversely, I have seen many strong defense dogs that were never tapped into their potential because the prey oriented training module( either club and now sometimes police trainers) will not elicit enough positive from dog for them to continue training the dog.
A good trainer will take a good dog and train it according to the dog's strengths regardless of primary drive. In reference to the OP's topic question, I have met countless trainers and Internet folks that can articulate defense in a dog but haven't a clue about really developing and training a good defense oriented dog. Just like I know many people who can drive a car, but can't build or fix one.
Look, I prefer the high quality prey oriented dog to train because you can progress fast and almost any decoy can work this type dog easily, but a finished strong defense dog is every bit as good a working dog, but the resources, patience, and training venues have become short in supply. Yet we need to keep these dogs in the breed, and continue to breed to the better ones to maintain the distinct features of this breed and maintain balance in genetics or else the breed will become much like the primary topics on forums.....show or sport.

bebo 

This situation was not meant to be a perfectly mapped analogy of an inferential experiment. Secondly a hypothesis can never be proven because inference is based on a sample,  such that   there is always the probability  P of finding some  n ^th member of the population  that may render the hypothesis unconstrained. Tis Cane Corso is one such member .

For those who think you can coerce a dog to engage under pressure - you are very wrong.  (I am not talking about clatter sticks, bite sleeves / suits).

The dog ALWAYS, has the option off taking flight or shutting down. (you can take a horse to water springs to mind).

Observing a dog working/training in stressful situations is imperative, it allows you to gauge wether or not that dog will consistently engage the aggressor. 

Co 2,  as many here will know, is used by police forces throughout the world when they know they may encounter a dangerous dog.(commonly a Pit Bull or PB type)

They use Co2 because - it works.

Typically - scaring the shit out of the dog and disorientating it as well. (as stated before temporarily affecting auditory/visual and scent)

Here is another conditioning/experience for my dog, filmed when he was approximately fifteen months of age:     

1, Slippery floor, impacting on the dog's traction.

2, Civil situation - decoy wearing only a HIDDEN leg sleeve, ensuring the dog is not visualy triggered by the assosiation of bulky sleeves / bite suit, which would send the dog into a play/prey mode. (I am using the word play deliberately)

3, A well delivered and realistic kick. When a dog bites a leg,  the jaw/neck muscles are working very hard. The dog has to contort his neck on a leg bite to compensate for the dificult angle of the vertical leg, as opposed to the perfect angle and fit of a typically presented horizontal bite sleeve arm. 

4, The dog is being attacked/approached in a very fast and aggressive way, (Boris does not flinch) as opposed to the typical situation - decoy walking away/running away in the opposite direction, whilst wearing a sleeve / suit which gives the dog a huge visual/rehearsed cue to play the practised game.   

5, And finaly a second person trying to distract the dog, by creating a visual and noise distraction.

Is the dog stressed - not at all, the threat is understandably less extreme than the CO2, in as much he can see/hear/scent..

Does he engage - yes, no hesitation. (same as he did when faced with Co2, or indeed shotgun fire - on the approach and on the bite)

Will this dog protect for real - yes.

(By the way the reason he is curling his front legs is because he knows through experience - they are vulnerable to kicks/hits). 

Darkvakia Boris -  a formidable man stopper, with nerves of steel and extremely well balanced  to boot. A no nonsense and GENUINE protecter, who will ENGAGE and  break bone in ANYenvirnoment. Wether the distraction is shot gun fire inches from his head whilst on the bite,  high pressure water / Co2, multiple attackers etc.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_1REXxptQ8

By all means disagree with the above, but PLEASE, back it up by SHOWING your own pride and joy, working UNDER PRESSURE, IN A CIVIL SITUATION. 

Regards 

Gee

 

 

 

A growly, shifty, shallow bite. Still not impressed, but glad you are happy with your boy.

 

hntrjmpr434 - show us how it's done then, go on give us a civil example of your dog, guarantee you can't?

The way that dog is biting/behaving is exactly how thousands of excellent hardened operational dogs behave.

Regards
Gee

Gee, all I have are young IPO dogs that have not had civil work, never claimed to have a prodigal dog. Nothing nearly as intense and extreme and beast like and rare such as your dog ;)
Sarcasm aside, I'm not going to continue to argue about your dog. I see a stressed dog, you see a wonderful dog. You love the dog, great. I don't, great, that's my opinion. No amount of you countering with excuses about why he does this and that will change my opinion.

HNTR434 - whilst I am waiting to see your dog under pressure in a civil situation.

Here is a compilation of real bites from forces throughout the world, and low and behold there are lots of growly/shifty bites for you to critique. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DsCVdWEbOkI

Regards

Gee