The Myth about Golden middles - Page 2

Ajay......I also agree with you.

This IS what I want also.....it has become our goal.

Robin

I think one of the big problems here in america is the great distances some of us have to travel to make breedings. I think the breed clubs should start up sprem banks to deal with the distance problem.  I believe this would give smaller hobbie breeders more genetic material to work with.

I have to agree that the concept of "golden middle" is subject to interpretation and not everyone is on the same page.

For all it's worth, here's my spin on it... golden middle = dog with strong working abilities and good conformation to work.

That being said, I see no need to mix showlines and workinglines to get the dog that "has it all" because as far as I'm concerned there are workingline dogs that have such a complete package.

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/65025.html

This link is for Iltis von der Wildsau, the sire of my own young male.  Not only is he SchH3 but also V rated in conformation and kkl1.  a-normal hips.  I saw him working at 9 years of age, at a French ring club, putting the chomp on a decoy in a bite suit.  The old man still has plenty of power left in him.  The dog is balanced in prey and defense with rock solid nerves.

So what else do you need for the "golden middle"?  A black and red coat?  That's just cosmetic. 

Yvette

Theresa,

Since you are talking showline males, I would recommend something out of the Ulk Arlett lines.

Vando Moorbeck, Karats Ulk, etc.

OR

Ando Altenberger Land lines. There are many.

 OR

Quartz Templari lines. Triumphs Gucci, and others.

Hope that helps some.

Debby

ebinezer052899@yahoo.com

castlebrookshepherds.net 

Thank you Debby, it does help. The female I am talking  about is from the Vando lines. I have spoken to someone with Ando lines, I just wanted to get some other ideas to research.  Thanks you again!

Theresa

Ajay, excellent commentary. So many of us just go "ga-ga" over the BSZS VA- winners and the low V-rated dogs, as well as the highest-placing working-line dogs and ignore some other dogs who are better specimens of the breed, as far as having 100% conformation to the F.C.I. standard and a temperament and disposition that is correct for the dog, and the ability to reproduce these characteristics with a correctly-matched mating.

The same can be said of the Am-bred A.K.C. lines. One occassionally sees some excellent examples of the breed who are not the show winners and will never make the champion's list. I don't like to use the terms "politics" and "money" but we know that these both influence ALL breed shows, regardess of who is the sanctioning body.

I guess that is why, of all the who are shown I tend to pay more attention to the dog who is awarded the title of Universal Sieger (or Siegerin) rather than the other dogs. We know that there is much polarization concerning the different lines that are present today, and a handful of us remember when there seemed to be just one (1) line-the German Shepherd Dog.

Ah, put me in a time machine and take me back to the time when one of my favourite dogs of all time, Lasso di val Sol, took the VA-5 seat. A correct VA-rated dog who could work! Before the S.V. altered their judging standard to promote the red/black colour, squatty rear carriage, oversized head, short muzzle, and the infamous "banana back" that we sometimes decry. DJC, I agree with your mention of Vando Moorbeck, another excellent dog worth mentioning.

Bob-O 

I think that as long as the conformation judges continue to award titles to dogs that are so overangulated that they can barely walk, the "Golden Middle" will remain out of reach.  I fail to see how this conformation represents the breed standard in any way.

SchBabe - I agree with you on this one... and that is a nice dog too :)

I've had my hands on an original copy of the GSD in word and picture for some time now - I have had a chance to study it and flip through it enough times to destroy the already fragile binding (as it gets shipped off to get rebound :p).  Those dogs look nothing like dogs in American Showlines or West German Show and Work lines today.  And those dogs were not only beautiful...but they were amazing workers as well...its amazing to see some of the pictures in that book.

However - you see alot of Czech and DDR line dogs that have that same structure - these are the same dogs that (at least I know in Virginia) police forces are purchasing for their programs...as a working breed shouldnt the structure that makes the best working ability be the correct structure?  I dont understand how a working dog can be structurally incorrect when the correct dog can't trot as long, work as long, or maintain the same level of intensity througout the day.

I also think it is important that the tempement and genetics should play a strong role in any kind of breeding program - without that the dogs just arent healthy - but personally - I think the structure that allows for the better ability to complete the work asked of the dog is much more important than the structure that people think looks the prettiest...and I think we dont see that structure in the show rings so much because the people who use them...the cops...military...SAR members arent very interested in showing.

~Cate