The Myth about Golden middles - Page 8

Thing is, Max didn't breed dogs for extremes. He clearly states dogs should be part of the family. In my opinion he did breed for the middle, not one extreme or the other.  Max bred for the "total" dog not a few traits.But hey who am I? I'm sure someone will pipe up and tell me I'm full of crap.

Sport people want extremes, they want to see fast, highflying, hard hitting, full grips. When you breed based on that, more often than not ,you get dogs with too much energy for anything but competing and work. I know our pups could not fit into a pet home and be indoor dogs. Not saying it's wrong, because thats what you need to make the podium and I actually preffer those types of dogs myself.

 I'm not even going to waste my time addressing the showline stuff.

You don't need to breed into showlines to get a balanced working dog.

Sue, I think it's very important that people research the breed of interest regardless if it's GSD's or Retrievers...I never realized there were showline and working lines in most breeds.  I had a Lab that came from working lines and he was a bit over the top for what I was able to handle.  I had gotten him as a puppy thinking he'd turn out like my mother in laws labs who I came to find out later were showlines.  They were much more laid back and calm.  I knew where I'd made my mistake; not understanding what I was buying.  With my GSD one would expect I'd of gone to a showline and had I not bought my first GSD titled and at the age of 21/2 I probably would have gone that route with a puppy since I think the working line would have had me crazy.  BUT the criteria I wanted in a dog I was only gonna get in a working line and since he's well balanced and came to me trained I enjoy him very much.  So to answer your question I think yes it is very important to understand what you can and want to handle when making the decission of working verses show.  However we all have different needs and expectations in our dogs and until everyone in the whole world has the same breeding goals and needs I don't think we will ever agree to come together on the "golden middle" or showline vs. workinglines.

4pack

I have to agree and dont think your full of crap.  I dont  think that Max bred for the middle.  He bred for exactly what they were supposed to be.   Im sure some of the breeedings were not cut out to work and some were over the top in drives that would be great for todays competition dog....but  he probably got rid of them.

I do think what he bred for were more along the lines of the working lines...and had a bit more drive to work than the average show line.  They probably would have been a bit much for the average person to have as a pet..  They were bred for work. 

Just because someone wants a GSD does not mean they should have one.  If they want a house dog they should get something that fits their life style.

Agar:  I agree 100%.  I love my working line dogs too.

My personal  preference is for a dog that has the potential and drive to work in any area I ask and have correct structure.  Do I expect that this dog will be the topmost absolute best dog in any one area no, but I expect the dog to be good in a number.

Colleen

The term "Golden Middle" is frequently misinterpreted to mean  "average" or ordinary. The term is correctly interpreted to mean a broad spectrum balance of high level skills and attributes. The GSD has been correctly described as "best at nothing, second at everything". This essentially requires a degree of excellence in all or most facets of life that is unapproached in other breeds. Bear in mind that most breeds are currently useless, and many are not even suitable pets. Most breeds began as single purpose dogs, and as their  "job" fell into decline became pets of one sort or another. The GSD has long been favored because of its notable versatility, intelligence, tractability, willing nature, qualities of discrimination, strength of character, courage, steadiness under pressure, ETC. Beauty and the physique of an endurance athlete serve to support these mental qualities. Many working dogs overcome their structural inadequacies with drive and good training, but this is not the ideal. Beauty serves the breed politically. Most people prefer a dog of great beauty with obvious athleticism and balanced sculpted physique to an equally talented dog of less compelling appearance. As I and others have stated before, there remain several dogs in both lines that have a balanced set of attributes qualifying them as representatives of the "Golden Middle". These dogs are the future of the breed. When crosses between the two lines are successful it will be with these golden dogs on both sides that have BOTH the degree of physical AND mental correctness to contribute. Best Wishes, Jonah

Jonah,  Where have you been all my life ????????

Your posts are always so sensible !!!  

Thank You for lending your perspective and sharing your interpretations with the rest of us.  :-)  They are EXCELLENT

Well said Jonah... and its a good thing this messageboard has very knowledgeable people like you unlike some I know who posts messages using only half of their brain...

Yes i believe the founder breed for the Golden Middle. And may i ask this simple question to extremists from either side of the spectrum... "What happens after a dog reaches his pedestal of recognition...??? He is being sold. (or to be exact... MOST are being sold..) You never expect a Bundessieger or a Leistungsieger to stay long in Germany after winning a crown...He will be sold to some foreign country and either be exploited and BRED for money or displayed for the VANITY of the succeding owner...

Have a nice day you guys...

Marci

An add on... I remember from what I've read from GSD History, the founder has his own kennel and although he bred the original blueprint of the GSD...He still recognize the annual Sieger from the old times neither belonging to the working or showlines...it was a consortium similar to a group of breed wardens who recognize the qualities of the TOP dog of the SIEGER year...They consider both beauty and performance and probably left endurance as a TIE-BREAKING factor.( I doubt it if they consider mere physical beauty as the main factor...I think it was beauty on how the dog performs and compared it to existing bloodlines from those days to establish what is desirable (STANDARDS)...Try to learn about the Uckermark and Kriminalpolizei lines from GSD history) Those were the days when bulk of the S.V. membership were trying to breed for dogs that look like WOLVES (which I think is the ultimate beauty) The main difference be GSD serves mans purpose making IT the UTILITARIAN BREED.. A breed suitable for a myriad of tasks and not just simply SPORTS...the founder warned about breeding for EXTREMES thats why the breed survey were introduced as well as the TEMPERAMENT tests...  The founder BRED FOR the GOLDEN MIDDLE...He let  the consortium pick the sieger...Its not only his decision...although when he makes a decision he explains it to the breed wardens and the breed wardens followed his lead...