DDR dogs, what is the difference between them and other shepherds

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by SchHBabe on 08 June 2007 - 06:06

joe t, "...dog to go 17 times to boon and seiger and win three..."

"boon and seiger" ?? Ouch.

by MVF on 08 June 2007 - 06:06

This discussion just shows that a complicated question, one that might be addressed with either a systematic empirical analysis or with an extensive genetic analysis, really cannot be resolved by a chat room argument. To decide if a whole nation's canine genetic material is somehow, when expressed in actual dogs, somehow superior or inferior to another's, will take much, much more than the kind of frustrated assertions we see here. There must be an example of everything: my DDR male matured YOUNG and had very, very solid nerve, and was not handler sensitive. My DDR female matured YOUNG as well, but has weaker nerve, and is handler sensitive. My Showlines male made her look like a titanium rocket launcher, he was so soft and sensitive (submissive urination, among other problems). What is the point of the generalizations? If you want a working dog you need to see that the parents are both what you like, the pedigree makes sense, the puppy is raised by someone who not only knows something but invests heavily in her time and attention in the puppy rearing, the puppy passes legitimate tests at 6-8 weeks, and then you have to know what you are doing when you raise the pup through all its critical stages and through its training. That's the hard truth: you can't solve a complex problem by buying a bloodline or a pedigree. One well known DDR breeder takes very good dogs and breeds them sensibly (nice pedigrees) but breeds about 20 litters a year and pays no attention to them in the nest. That's a formula for problems. Perhaps the so-called handler sensitive dogs were raised by breeders too distracted to raise them attentively? Perhaps differences in puppy raiser styles in different places actually create the differences we think we see in lines? We just don't know.

by Don Corleone on 08 June 2007 - 13:06

MVF

I guess I am simple and ignorant. I think it is an easy question to answer. Sure there are going to be variations from the norm. I think most of the people on here have it right. DDR dogs, as a whole, are inferior dogs in the sport world. It is a plain and simple fact. I'm not saying this because I own West German lines, but because I own DDR dogs and have owned quite a few in the past.

by dawgma on 08 June 2007 - 13:06

As Zahnburg stated these dogs are bred for size of head, color of coat and large bones.

That in itself is not hard to do, in every ad for these dogs these are the three main ingredients. To add anything else might subtract from the recipe in general.

It's just the fact that some distant relative of their dog was an army dog/border patrol or whatever that fuels the fire for some people, but like Joe stated albeit unwittingly, your distant relatives have little or nothing to do with or contribute to yourself. genetics 101.

by Sunsilver on 08 June 2007 - 14:06

"As Zahnburg stated these dogs are bred for size of head, color of coat and large bones."

The ironic thing is you could be describing the West German showlines when you say that. If only more breeders would focus on the 'total package' when they breed, and not just appearance (and for the showring, movement.)

by The Gooner on 08 June 2007 - 16:06

Excellent reply Zahnburg

In my opion the 100% DDR dog is almost a myth. It's more of a marketing statement.

What we are talking about here is German dogs, the fact that they (Germans) split for a while is neither here nor there.

The people didn't suddenly become hard headed ruthless commies (like in the movies), they remained Germans and their dogs still remained German Shepherds.

It is true that the dogs bred by the East Germans were picked with slightly different criteria hasn't affected the breed to any huge degree in my opinion. The truth is we all love to see a big dog hitting hard and doing his job well.

I'd be interested if someone could point me in the direction of someone breeding "pure 100% DDR dogs"

Best

Chris

by The Gooner on 08 June 2007 - 16:06

Excellent reply Zahnburg

In my opion the 100% DDR dog is almost a myth. It's more of a marketing statement.

What we are talking about here is German dogs, the fact that they (Germans) split for a while is neither here nor there.

The people didn't suddenly become hard headed ruthless commies (like in the movies), they remained Germans and their dogs still remained German Shepherds.

I'd be interested if someone could point me in the direction of someone breeding "pure 100% DDR dogs"

Best

Chris

by Alte Ahnen on 08 June 2007 - 16:06

Here's a link to the DDR Meisterschaft scores and years. http://www.musterknaben.net/ddr_ranglisten.php DDR SDG if you look up 1982 you will see that Dixie v Gleisdreieck did indeed have a very different score than in 1983 only proving my point that any given dog on any given day can either perform or not perform well. As to your comment about the dog's for sale on our site, it's not even close to the size of the ad's here on the database that are mostly show and wgr working lines, so what's your point? I think you just like to be argumentative instead of really trying to learn about the DDR dog's. My full DDR SCH 3 KKL 1 V rated lbz. male has a SCH 3 score of 96-89-90. As to the comments on the nerve issues, I still maintain that is a genetic breeding fault and I can profess the same about west lines, czech, and belgium lines. There are good dog's and bad dog's no matter which heritage. If some DDR breeder's are breeding only for size of head, large bone and pigment, that maybe. I can generalize the same about west/belgium working lines, they're bred for high play/prey drive not a balance of drives. Temperment and strong nerve come first on my priority list, shouldn't they be first on any breeder's list?

by jennie on 08 June 2007 - 17:06

What was the difference between the DDR-workingtrials and the west SCH? I´ve seen some clips from DDR-trilas from the late 80s, but don´t know the rules exactly and if´s always been performed like that. Anyway, it seems many breed DDR dogs nowadays because they like the look of these big blocky dogs, but there also seems to be many nice dogs with also have some DDR--dogs to different deegre in the pedigree. A DDR-dog that is really good, what I´ve heard, and has good drives is this one, can see him under "males" on this kennel,

http://www.atenagarden.se/english.htm

Another stud wich have been used alot in Sweden, and according to the owner is the dog wich have the higest average score in protection at the WUSV is this one, full DDR on his mother side, and a mix of west german, Swedish and some DDR on the fathers side,

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/119847.html

by Alte Ahnen on 08 June 2007 - 17:06

Jennie, if you go to this link http://www.ddrlegends.com/nobleheritage.html it explains in my article the difference in the trials.

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