breeders - Page 11

These were pedigree based studies, no more no less, the same as a number of famous GSD breeders have done with torsion disorders for many years, they just don't want to discuss it publicly because it is viewed as a form of "leprosy" for any associated lines, even those progeny that may not carry it (this is true of most serious, life-threatening GSD heritable disorders such as aortic arch stenosis or heart conductance dysfunction or EPI or bleeding disorders. Exactly the same selective breding methods have been utilized by a number of GSD kennels over the years but most breeders don't like discussing and acknowledging these painful and discrediting issues in public. What is not yet known is the specific mode of inheritance for all types and occurrences of these various torsion related disorders, and whether they are dominant genes with incomplete penetrance or polygenic recessive or both (best guess at this time based on available nomothetic evidence is both). You mention "my study".  I never asserted that.  I only stated what I believe is factual and what that is based on. On the otherhand, you present nothing substantial, just oppositional and ignorant comments and these comments of yours give one no reason to think you have any basic knowledge about GSD breeding or the genetics related, none whatsoever.  You come off as if you really don't have even basic knowledge of genetics in general or canine genetics.  Certainly you appear to know nothing about basic academic research methodology or the scientific method. I suggest you go to the library and check out some basic books on human and canine genetics and then acquire the outstanding work of Dr. Malcom Willis.  And yes Blitzen, you are correct.  I do know of that one superstar you are referring to that died of torsion and his owners claimed it was something else, an accident.  But this has also been claimed with a substantial number of other young and somewhat less successful stud dogs that died early. 

Nothing. My challenge is always to maintain the qualilty of the breed.

SS

I didn't really take the time to read ALL of this post, but Shelly's right on, IMO. "to maintain the qualilty of the breed"

The improvement of the breed really shouldn't even be discussed until the opposing forces that are destroying it are confronted.  Namely, the practice of bad breeding, by breeding "outside of standard."  But also, the practice of selling these dogs that don't make the standard with breeding rights!!  Yes, we get some good dogs in the U.S. occasionally, to and from the breeders who are committed to excellence, but some Europeans are just as eager to send us their crap as well.  Without the rules and regulations for breeding that are strictly controlled in Europe, the U.S. can only emulate European standards.  A breeder over here can maintain somewhat, but will still be reliant for fresh new blood from Europe to improve upon their lines, until there are enough breeders here that share their devotion to the breed standard.  IMO, breeders should also impose their own standards upon the purchasers of their puppies (i.e., limited registration until qualified proof of "breedworthiness" is determined).  A greater level of "awareness" among the general populace would be beneficial as well.  When the consequences of  "backyard breeding" extend beyond the (useless) disdain from better breeders, and the puppy buyers themselves know better and want better (which is more purposeful), then also things might improve.

That's a pretty good start from our standpoint, although I believe that Europeans have their issues as well.  What solutions can be offered?  For me, I'm  "walking the walk" by enforcing limited registration until proven breedworthy by proven working ability in a recognized working venue from either a title or a qualified expert, and passing OFA scores.  That alone keeps the TONS of BYB's from wasting my time, because that's too much work to attain breeding rights, and start making "tons of money."  That sort of motivation comes from exactly the type of people that DON'T need to be breeding!  The other things that could help us here tremendously is more awareness of the TRUE standard and "what is ideal" to the general populace, more participants in workingdog clubs, more clubs all over (of whatever type), and less politics catering to the personal agendas of those who would abuse their authority.