breeders - Page 2

Ceph, answer one question. How do you breed to prevent bloat?

As someone said it is pretty tall order for one breeder to improve the breed. That calls for joint effort , don't you think.

A single breeder can try to improve the quality (in as many aspects as possible) of "his dogs" through carefull and planned breedings. When you look back and compare your dogs from present to past then you see have you done it.

When I was breeding (another large breed) I tried to stay away from dogs that had bloated or those with 1st degree relatives that had bloated. That's one way to try to prevent bloat in the dogs one breeds..

Blitzen, are you saying you believe bloat is genetic?

Yes, I believe that there is a genetic component involved.

Blitzen, have you access to any scientific studies the rest of us have not seen or is this wild eyed speculation on your part?

Spook, I am not prone to wild eyed speculation, I have personal knowledge of specific lines that produce more than the expected percentage of bloat in their offspring. I have a few friends who have had so much bloat in their related dogs that they routinely tack them while they are still young. I also personally know a very dedicated person who has for years been researching and compiling stats regarding causes of death in the GSD; she has also come to the conclusion that there is a genetic component involved.  Her opinion is based on hard statistics that were submitted to her by the owners of these dogs, some of which are related in the first few generations and that go back to several common dogs. 

I suspect one could surf the net and come up with all sorts of arguments for and against breeding dogs that have already bloated and/or have 1st degree relatives that have. You asked me if I believe bloat is genetic and I answered your question.  IF I were breeding GSD's, base on my experience with another large breed and what I have learned from others, I would opt to err on the side of caution and try to breed away from dogs with that tendency. I would also continue to feed 2 wet meals a day, not exercise my GSD for an hour or so before and after feeding,  and to feed a food low in grains. Just makes good sense to me.

First of all in everything I have found it is mentioned that Bloat occurs in much more frequently in large dogs with deep chests such as the GSD and that means that there is a genetic disposition based on structure/build of the dog even if there is not a single gene involved in the Bloat....there are certain things that make a dog more high risk - Perdue is trying to identify those factors right now.

Second of all does it really matter all that much?  Is it wrong to be extra careful?  Personally I dont think HD is as genetic as everyone says because if it were it would be alot easier to determine which litters would produce dogs with HD and which wouldnt...but the reality is that we have surprises allllll the time...not only that but there is a huge environmental impact on Hip Dysplasia as well - so how do we know which dogs have a genetic disposition towards hip dysplasia and which ones were fed wrong/worked too hard?  We dont know for sure so we are careful in our breeding....it doesnt stop it but maybe it minimizes it...I think that perhaps bloat might be a similiar event...thats my opinion though.

I am going through some journals to see what I can find - I will post what I do.

~Cate

Ceph, this link may or may not be the most current report from Perdue regarding their research on gastric torsion. The stats are in the body of Lanting's article. It seems they concluded that dogs with 1st degree relatives  could have as much as a 60+% higher risk factor of bloating than those without that involvement.

http://www.siriusdog.com/articles/torsion-dog-megaesophagus2.htm