Defense drive or Prey drive - Page 16

jeff

did you know the dog from brigita? i had the dog for some time (one year). he was a very driven asshole dog when he matured. he had some issues with bitting people that why i'm not training him any more. the dog was pretty good with his handler once he knew you were his handler (only got bit twice in the first few months). i liked the dog alot but we just couldn't pin down what would set him off on people. he didn't seem to give any clues he would just lash out and bite.

Watsongsd

I read a few of the posts and past over most of the steaming piles along the way.  Many people on here are right and many are clueless.  Prey drive is what you see in a dog when he spots a small animal.  As if he were chasing a rabbit, the same can be seen on the protection field.  Watch a dog being worked.  When a dog is beginning, the helper usually will test the animal by throwing the tug or sleeve off to the side.  Pay attention and see what the dog is interested in.  Does he go towards the sleeve, or does he stay focused on the helper?

What you want is a balanced dog.  Defense DOES derive from fear.  There are very few dogs that have no fear, if any at all.  Some just have a higher threshold and more of a threat is needed to push it out of the dog.  I have seen only a few dogs like this.  These dogs will sit there like nothing is going on.  Why should they react?  There is no fear present. 

A well balanced dog is an asset.  All species on this earth need fear.  If we didn't have fear, we would have a huge number of buses killing people every day.   It is a survival instinct.  Our character dictates our reaction to the fear. 

Take a look at Schh Protection. 

Blind search-Prey

Hold and Bark-Both, but I hate to see a dog working totally in Prey, whining with that yappy bark, begging for the sleeve.

Escape-Mainly prey

Re-attack-mainly defense

Courage test- Both, but a defensive dog without prey wouldn't follow through.

Even when a helper drives a dog he can do it in both drives.

Anyways, there is a lot of good literature out there.  Google Helmut Raiser, Armin Winkler, Werner Rapien, or find someone with old SchH USA magazines.  Lots of good articles in there!

don

good post

quote: Defense DOES derive from fear.  There are very few dogs that have no fear, if any at all.

careful that quote is a hot button.

quote: These dogs will sit there like nothing is going on.  Why should they react?  There is no fear present.

this is correct some times for two different reasons. reason one the dog doesn't percieve a threat. reason two, the dog is avoiding ( a fear responce). these dogs can be hard to work in the protection work. if the dog doesn't percieve a threat then normally they have higher threasholds for stimulas. if the dog is avoiding then they usally have low threasholds and lack confidence. the dogs i like are the ones with lower threasholds for stimulas (prey and defence) with sound temperment. they seem easier to balance.

Nice post Don, that was more along the lines of what I had thought.  What are your opinions of my video where I attempted to show defense? No one felt that it was defense but I would like to hear what you think, since you are the first to label each protection excersise.  If you were to "label" what is going on in the video what would it be.  If a re-attack is "defense" surely this must be?  At least that is why I had initially thought it was defense. 

Defense:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6iS8PdVQsI

Prey:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6tjZ3F1jVJ8

Regards,

Melanie

Workingdawg,

I wish I had know about your Mal. You could have sent him to me

get a real dog

alot of people wanted him until they got him. the dog was nice but wasn't wired right. he chewed up 5 different people. thought i could make him a competion dog but i don't believe he would have been able to pass the bh. we tried just about everything. it came down to there are lots of good dogs out there that aren't going to eat up some for no apparent reason. (sure there was some reason we just couldn't figure it out)

I still would have taken him. I like dogs that want to eat people

Preston,

It's now hard for me to take you serious as a gsd breeder/trainer as you have impressed me as i said before as an educated idiot. I don;t mean this as insulting but as a fact of the matter. This does not mean your dogs are not high quality at all and you may have the ability to pick and judge excellent conformation dogs but i question your insight on abiliities to read and understand a dog's mentality.

get a real dog

next time i run across one you'll be the first to know. those types of dog are great if you have family members you don't like: )

GARD. am I forced to answer my own question?  Or are you going to add something to the mixture.  I will wait another day or so and then give my opinion of what I THINK may be the answers to bite inhibition and high threshold for aggression.  Since we are talking about fear I believe these other behavioral aspects have to be thrown in because I believe they are related.  A multitude of behavioral aspects must be considered in the complete make-up of every dog.  And some reactions simply come from the experience of the dog and his own history plus environment and nurturing plays a role.

Look forward to hearing from you.