Defense drive or Prey drive - Page 17

I was waiting to hear from others to see what they had to say. I'll play but I don't really want to play with myself

So what did you want to talk about when it comes to bite inhibition? You touched on several aspects of it. Do you think there is a genetic aspect to it?

I agree with you in that bite inhibition in the context of a dog that is genetically  predisposed to perform bitework is a product of experience and how the dog is brought up. Prime example of a common cause of bite inhibition that casues me to pull my hair out:

FOR GOD'S SAKE STOP TAKING THINGS OUT OF A PUPPY OR YOUNG DOGS MOUTH!!!

STOP CHOKING THE DOG OFF OF EVERYTHING!!!!!!! TRADE THE DOG FOR SOMETHING ELSE!!!

What is your take on this? How do you think it affects a dog in bitework and how do you handle it if/when you come accross people doing it?

I have a prime example of experience playing a part in bite inhibition. The reigning FR 3 national champion is a dog by the name of Titan. Titan has a real problem with hands. He does not like to bite arms and if you put hands in front of his face he goes into some significant avoidance. When I talked to his owner, he told me how he was having a hard time with this. Once I saw it on video, I saw the avoidance. My opinion is when he was trained in France, he probably bite a decoy in the hand and got the living shit kicked out of him for it. This is just my theory but believe I am on the mark. Now the dog has serious issues with hands.

In the same vein, we now have to talk about resiliancy. Is the dog able to overcome negative experiences? This is a topic that is not discussed very often but I feel is very important. If a dog is not able to recover from a negative experince quickly, they do not stay at my house. I got a puppy from this Titan dog. She had two negative expereinces she never recovered from no matter how hard I tried. 6 months later, that dog was gone.

So Sunshine, do you think this is genetic or just the consitution on an individual dog?

Let me know your thoughts. Then we can talk about the pros and con's of bite inhibition for various applications or uses in dogs. Then maybe about aggression "thresholds" but I am typed out for the night. I would really enjoy a discussion on resiliancy as well.

Take care.

Just to clarify something so there are no mis-conceptions.

The example I gave above is not to be veiwed as negative about Titan or any one dog. You can't win a national championship without a good dog. This is just an example to answer a question within the context of this discussion.

jeff

the problems came from both the club and genetics. it would be nice if we could blame just one thing but it was more than that.  the day the puppy arrieved there was some thing not right with the puppy (he was healthy social and drivey). he was seriously food aggresive, yah thats right an 8 week old puppy was very very very food aggresive. the puppy didn't even like people in the same room as he was eating. if you hand feed him it was fine unless you gave him a hand full of food. we tried many other thing also. no dice, he was an ass over food. the aggression when he started to mature started leaking over to people. then with bad training it bloomed.

sound like i like the same type of dog as you. this was not that type of dog. he had very good drives for the toy. other than that he was just an OK dog with some bad training and head problems. he was a headach.

if you want the full first hand account story let me know. tpd2654@yahoo.com

GARD,  first just to clarify, I have not owned GSDs for such a long time.  On the most part I consider myself a pet and hobby person who enjoys training and learning about dogs.  I also like to watch the top trainers work theirs.  That being said, it took me a long time to figure out what everyone meant when they referred to "drive".  Therefore, I have come to define certain references for myself.

To me a dog with "good" bite inhibition is a dog that is not necessarily reactive to new stimuli or situations.  I would consider this dog to have been well socialized and be environmentally sound.   As an example, dog and owner are hanging out and some nut or innocent child walking by throws their arms around the dogs neck.  The dog does not view this as a threat although this scenario has never happened before.  The dog does not move forward nor does it retreat. 

As far as high threshold for "aggression" is concerned, I base my view of this coming from seeing one dog.  The dog was 6 years old and not titled, out of working lines.  I just loved this dog.  He did beautiful obedience, was a very impressive male.  Had no problem on the sleeve.  But someone wanted more out of him.  They were trying to get more defence out of the dog.  What was their solution?  Stick hits over and over on his head.  The dog was so self-assured in my eyes and just did not see the work as a threat.  His threshold for aggression to me was very high.  The sad thing about this dog, is that eventually he just had a problem on the sleeve.  Not at any time did I feel this dog to lack courage or was fearful.  I think he just did not understand why he was being beaten.  It is sad when you see a good dog (atleast in my eyes) be ruined. 

Well those are my thoughts on fear in reference to bite inhibition and high threshold for aggression.  Your viewpoint is very different from my understanding.  Always nice to learn something new.

Best regards,

I never mess with food aggression, as I feed in the crate. I also could care less. LOL I can also say that even older dogs that I have had that came to me with this problem, it went away, as I did nothing to encourage or discourage it.

I will say from the people that I personally know that trained in that club and then "escaped" that it was the training that the dog got there. I will say that most of what they do borders on abuse. Most of these people are good friends of mine and not some person I met in passing.

jeff

same here with food aggression. i feed my dogs in a crate. this dog when i started feeding him in a crate he would start getting aggressive then when i would take him to a crate. what i ended up doing was sliding his food under the kennel. but he was still not safe around people.

i think your thinking of the wrong club my brother was in. i pretty sure i know what club your talking about. they are die hard old school. i bet we know alot of the same people.

Have him give me a call. 720 621 5585. I need to get some training done. : )