Schutzhund will die, and GSD people won’t stop it…… - Page 12

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AgarPhranicniStraze1 ????????? What is this all about ???????

O.k.  my dog goes nuts over anything you throw, and really  nuts over laser lights, even when he is so tired he can barely move ..if my kidswalk in and throw a toy--he is right on it---is this what you mean by good prey drive?

wher i live are lots of stray dogs and for a while there was a male bulldog hiding in the woods by my house, everytime my kids would go outside to play i had to watch out for this "unknown" dog, by the time boss turned 3 1/2 moths old, he would chase this stray dog off if it got near the kids (he was ok if the dog was just kinda hangin around but if it started to go towards the kids boss would get razor back and turn on attack mode..lol..well as much attack mode as a pup can do) the same if other "unknown"dogs get to close to me, he plays with them just fine but does not like for them to come to close to me.....does this mean he would be good at protection?

he is always looking me straight in the eyes, if im holding food or toy he only glances at it and looks right at me, barely any time on teaching him WATCH ME...does that mean good focus?

he SITS when i tell him, bout breaks his neck to get to me if i say COME, he  we are still working on STAY<--guess he can't stand for me to leave him...does this show good obedience?

Does this seem like a good dog to do schutzhund with? am i wasting his potential by keeping him at home? even if i was to go to a club, with ME being so ignorant with all the rules and what the dogs are suppose to do, will they laugh at me?

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/511023.html

part one:

AgarPhranicniStraze1,

My name is Aimee and I am a member of one the Sch Clubs you visited.  First off, let me say that I am new to the sport of Sch.  I looked at three clubs over the last couple years and was VERY disappointed in the lack of respect and human decency of the people involved.  I have American Bulldogs and have always been treated like an outsider by the sch clubs that I have seen.  When I joined my club, I found a huge welcome mat-regardless of breed-into the club.  It was inviting and welcoming-I have found a love for this sport with out having to give up my love for my bulldog.  I have competed and trained for years in sport and tests similar to that of the testing aspects of sch...however I have always stayed away from sch because of the attitude and the way it was presented.  I have found a GREAT club and NOW I actually enjoy speaking with GSD enthusiasts.

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part 2

It is the stance of our club that you need a dog with balanced drives (fight/defense/prey) to protect you.  The trainer told you that your dog worked in 98% prey and was incredibly equipment focused.  We showed you videos and our own club dogs (from beginner to advanced/finished) to demonstrate differences between the drives.  You were shown a good spectrum of dogs with variations in the balance of their drives and what they were capable of based on the variations.  NOT one member of our club EVER bashed your dog!  I personally told you how scared I was for you to have to trust AGAR in your specific situation based on his performance in the scenarios. 

You were complimented on his look, his personality, his obedience, and his ability for Sch-exposed sleeve-sport work--just not his ability to protect in a real life situation.  We tried to show you several examples through video and our own dogs to educate you and give you information so you could form your own opinion.  We were all very welcoming to you and your husband.  We enjoyed the time spent with you and invited you to come back out.  We thought you were great people!  We did however feel that you had misplaced trust in your dog-especially after you explained the true need for a dog that would bite for real.  At no time did any member or the trainer offer to find or sell you a dog-we actually told you we would NOT sell you a dog or find a dog for you.

part 3

It is also the stance of our club that no child should be left unattended with a high drive working dog.  My dog doesn't get to run around freely and play with kids that are carrying a ball/sword/stick/toy gun-anything that does or could resemble the items used during training.  and this is NOT because my dog is unstable-or not kid friendly-but because i am a smart dog owner-regardless of breed.  All our dogs (club) are stable, friendly, and kid safe...however, we do not feel that a high drive working dog should have free run of a house or become a couch potato.  You were never told the dog would eat your children or that they couldn't co habitate....you were told that the dog should be crated or in a down and they shouldn't be left unattended together.  Prevent situations instead of reacting to one when/if it pops up.   

I  will say that I am disappointed and a little offended to read your posts on here regarding that day.  You seemed very firmly planted in the fact that AGAR wouldn't bite for real-and now you've changed your mind?  Even in your testimonial you state that you find it hard to believe that he would-and that was before you visited our club.  REGARDLESS-I hope you never have to put that dog to the real test-I pray for the safety of your family in the situation you have...lets hope that it never comes down to the real bite.  Myself and my Sch Club wish you all the best in your journey and hope to see you competing in Sch with AGAR.

Aimee

sorry about the giant space about--guess my enter buttone went nutss...

i also forgot to mention that i have two kids that are 6 and 7 years old..also two rat terriers ..that climbs on plays with pulls at and bites at my boss(my dog) all day long, he loves it and wags his tail through it all, does this mean good nerves? what do they mean by good nerves?

part 4

here is the email you sent us when you returned home:

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part 5

here is the response you received:


I wanted to write you and tell you that We all was happy that you all came out and worked your dog with us ...but I am frustrated by the dishonesty of some disreputable dog “trainers & Kennels ” advertising dogs and training, I have trained a large number of dogs for sport as well as for professional protection work, both personal and professional law enforcement K-9 programs. I regularly antend lectures around the world, and givie seminars in my specialties: Schutzhund, Police K9 , Search and Rescue, and Protection I train “sport” dogs and “Real Street” dogs and their handlers to achieve their highest potential. In my work, I have come across many disreputable trainers who advertise for large amounts of money dogs that are poorly trained or worse. Intruders don’t sneak in your house wearing bite suits or bite sleeves. Any legit protection dog trainer can demonstrate this to you with YOUR dog in question. If your dog has fight dive He would have tried to bark or bite me like Tas and the other dogs did .. It is quite common to describe the level of the protection dogs as Level 1, Level 2, executive protection, and so on. In many ways this is based on the structure of competitions. But one company’s Level 2 dog might be very weak compared to another company’s Level 1. There is no unified system for “grading” dogs on the market. The issue with YOUR DOG is that of sport dog versus the “real” dog. In nutshell, many dogs that do well in dog sports, may be only “sport” dogs, meaning they will not protect you or your family if needed and with more training they will still not protect you . They will not bite an intruder or attacker without a sleeve or a bite suit. You may see a very fancy video of a dog that works great on a bite suit, but he may not do so well if he had to bite in a real life situation. This is where a skilled and honest trainer is necessary to tell you about the dog in question. As an example, on occasion police K9 dogs with the highest performance records in trials will be purchased by a police force and find themselves, say chasing a suspect in a dark alley. But when the dog finally catches up with the criminal, it becomes highly confused and stressed, because it wants to bite him, but it doesn’t see the familiar equipment. This is what I showed you with YOUR dog ... Your dog sat there and did nothing ..Why ..... Well what I see is NO fight drive or Defence drive in your dog on a scale of 1-10 your do is a 1 -1/2 at its best . Why .. you may ask. well he can not nore will he ever look at people as a threat .. Why ... He is all Prey that is why No fight drive he is just playing a game and will always look at the man as a Toy .. So PLEASE do not think he will protect you for real .. Is he a nice dog ... yes ... but he would be a dog that I would have placed with a Kid that wanted to work a dog for sport ... Not a protection dog ... I did not see the drive that I want in a dog .... I hope you undestand what I am writeing you and you understand that it is Unsafe to use that dog as a Protetion dog .. I read a few times your testimonal that you gave them and if you remember you back then ??? that your dog would do the work ... Read what you wrote them .. I just hope you never have to rely on this dog for a Real Life threat as I am sorry to say he will fail .. I wish you the best in life and work and We all had a good time with you and enjoyed you all being here at training . I will send you the DVD / CD of all the videos so you can take a look at them .. I hope to , hear from you soon .. and your and your famliy are more than welcome to come out anytime ...
Thank you,
Timothy Helser
O.G. Ohio Schutzhund & Working K-9 Club & SPD K-9 Training Center
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How tacky to copy a breed board on a private email.