sorry couldn't get this to post under Sch will die... - Page 1

Pedigree Database


by WYBKennel on 25 July 2007 - 17:07

part 5

here is the response you received:      I wanted to write you and tell you that We all was happy that you all came out and worked your dog with us ...but I am frustrated by the dishonesty of some disreputable dog “trainers & Kennels ” advertising dogs and training,    I have trained a large number of dogs for  sport as well as for professional protection work, both personal and professional law enforcement K-9 programs.  I regularly antend lectures around the world, and givie seminars in my specialties: Schutzhund,  Police K9 , Search and Rescue, and Protection  I train “sport” dogs and “Real Street” dogs and their handlers to achieve their highest potential.  In my work, I have come across many disreputable trainers who advertise for large amounts of money dogs that are poorly trained or worse. Intruders don’t sneak in your house wearing bite suits or bite sleeves. Any legit protection dog trainer can demonstrate this to you with YOUR  dog in question. If your dog has fight dive He would have tried to bark or bite me like Tas and the other dogs  did ..  It is quite common to describe the level of the protection dogs as Level 1, Level 2, executive protection, and so on. In many ways this is based on the structure of competitions.  But one company’s Level 2 dog might be very weak compared to another company’s Level 1.  There is no unified system for “grading” dogs on the market.  The issue with YOUR DOG  is that of  sport dog versus the “real” dog. In nutshell, many dogs that do well in dog sports,  may be only “sport” dogs, meaning they will not protect you or your family if needed and  with more training they will still not protect you .  They will not bite an intruder or attacker without a sleeve or a bite suit. 


(please continue to next post)

by WYBKennel on 25 July 2007 - 17:07

part 6

You may see a very fancy video of a dog that works great on a bite suit, but he may not do so well if he had to bite in a real life situation. This is where a skilled and honest trainer is necessary to tell you about the dog in question. As an example, on occasion police K9 dogs with the highest performance records in trials will be purchased by a police force and find themselves, say chasing a suspect in a dark alley.  But when the dog finally catches up with the criminal, it becomes highly confused and stressed, because it wants to bite him, but it doesn’t see the familiar equipment. This is what I showed  you with YOUR dog ... Your dog sat there and did nothing ..Why ..... Well what I see is NO fight drive or Defence drive in your dog on a scale of 1-10 your do is a 1 -1/2 at its best . Why .. you may ask. well he can not nore will he ever look at people as a threat .. Why ... He is all Prey that is why No fight drive he is just playing a game and will always look at the man as a Toy  .. So PLEASE do not think he will protect you for real .. Is he a nice dog ... yes ... but he would be a dog that I would have placed with a Kid that wanted to work a dog for sport ... Not a protection dog ... I did not see the drive that I want in a dog .... I hope you undestand what I am writeing you and you understand that it is Unsafe to use that dog as a Protetion dog .. I read a few times your testimonal that you gave them and if you remember you back then ??? that your dog would do the work ... Read what you wrote them .. I just hope you never have to rely on this dog for a Real Life threat as I am sorry to say he will fail .. I wish you the best in life and work and We all had a good time with you and enjoyed you all being here at training . I will send you the DVD / CD of all the videos so you can take a look at them ..  I hope to , hear from you soon .. and your and your famliy are more than welcome to come out anytime ...

Thank you, Timothy Helser

O.G. Ohio Schutzhund &  Working K-9 Club  & SPD K-9 Training Center

(please continue to next)

by harddawg on 25 July 2007 - 17:07

How long has this lady owned this dog?

by Get A Real Dog on 25 July 2007 - 17:07


Don't bother.

by WYBKennel on 25 July 2007 - 17:07

Um...I think since sept/oct of last year???


by iluvmyGSD on 25 July 2007 - 18:07

do you have to be "invited" to a club/ or do i just show up there with my dog?

by WYBKennel on 25 July 2007 - 18:07


I am NOT here to stick up for anyone or bash anyone.  I was there, saw the dog...saw the evaluation.  What was posted about our club and what happened was not accurate...

I have no interest in a bickering match...OR being called someone's cronie...however I expect that kind of response...its exactly what makes me sick about this sport!





by harddawg on 25 July 2007 - 18:07

I would like to say that you surely went out of your way to help this woman. Much further than alot of people would have. Very nice of you. Very nice explanation which I think shows for sure that in it's current "state" the dog most likely would not protect the owner.

I do wonder though if the dog could be "turned" civil with work.

by flipfinish on 25 July 2007 - 18:07

I am not as concerned with this particular instance as with the point of my original post, apprently this giant reply forced us over to this one.

Don, I understand the golf analogy, but you wouldnt go for lessons if you didnt have a true desire to get better would you? So if you already had enough love for the sport, then you would be able to see why you should get new grips, clubs etc. As an avid golfer (7 handicap) let me reverse this analogy, a good professional will tell you it is not the clubs, it is the swing. I see, on a weekly basis, golfers with $2000 worth of brand new equipment who can't break 90 and I with my 4 year old driver, homemade clubs, and old bag go out and consistently shoot in the 70's. So why does equipment (or in this case dogs) matter? I have seen really good dogs under bad handlers get bad scores, and I have seen really good handlers with really bad dogs get good scores. You need a solid foundation, I agree, but let the newbie learn for themselves by being open and friendly. That was my point and you still seem to miss it.

My reason for offering to help after, as you call it, "blasting" the schutzhund world is simple. My dad taught me to never point out a problem unless you can offer up a solution. What kind of person would I be to say, "your doing it wrong" if I had no thoughts on how to make it right. If I can't help or am not willing then why not keep my trap shut to begin with.....

Please tell me you get it this time? Oh, and I have in fact been on a Sch field......

by harddawg on 25 July 2007 - 18:07

Look flip, not to be rude but it's like anything in the real world. You have to dedicated, have the right stuff and find the right people to work with. Schutzhund is something you have to really want and if you really want it you will find the right people to work with.


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