sorry couldn't get this to post under Sch will die... - Page 2

WYB Kennel - Aimee

First of all I want to say that I thought I was being very "nice" about the whole situation and that is why I sent the email I did when I returned home.  What I really wanted to say and was trying to refrain from saying is that I think Tim Helser is the biggest punk I have ever laid eyes on and this is in no way to offend you or hurt your feelings-JMO and many many others that I've hear of also. And I'm being kind when I call him a punk!

Now I never mentioned names and I didn't mention a club name because I didn't want to take this board to that level. YOU did. I never had any dealings or discussions with you until the time I met you at the club which by the way I was fond of you.  In fact I liked everyone there EXCEPT Tim.  I think to what I saw and what I heard come out of his mouth that his training, helper work and thought process is substandard to say the least.  And I really didn't want to have to go there with my oppinion cause it doesn't matter to me what he thought of my dog.

It was completely unfair to put a trained competition dog who's had limited exposure to real life scenarios with staging the scene as the way it was done without commands and having him held on a 6ft lead.  I didn't need to drive 5 hours one way for Tim to tell me if my dog would or would not bite-quite frankly we have had enough experienced helpers and experienced trainers evaluate the dog and BELIEVE me all these people who've seen the dog know far more than Tim.  I was really really really not trying to bring his name on this board and have people who don't particularly care for him jump on the ban wagon but hey you only got yourself to blame now for whatever comments come out.  BTW, we were looking for a club but not the one you got going on.  No offense-if it works for you then great but Tim isn't worthy of working my 1 1/2 at best dog.  That's why I decided to take his "1 1/2 at best glorified sport dog home" and get him trained by someone that knows what the hell they're doing. 

I chose to just completely disregard that the meeting with Tim ever took place and I think I'll take Get a Real Dogs advice and leave this alone. 

Flip

I never said you weren't on a field

I agree a good trainer can do wonders with a mediocre dog, but a newbie with a flat dog will be going in circles.  This has nothing to do with being friendly, but being honest with someone.  I started Sch with a DDR dog.  The dog was a good tracker.  He had very little drive and was a bit sharp with an edge.  Within a few months of being at the club, I bought a dog that was more suited to the sport.  I didn't feel ashamed.  I had not bred that dog for this purpose.  Like people, not all animals are made for the same thing.  If I would have stuck with that dog, I would have been stuck at square one.  I thank the people that had the courage and knowledge to steer me in the right direction.  That to me is called help.  They could have laughed and talked behind my back, but instead, leant me a hand.  They saved, in my estimation, atleast 4 years of training time.

I do understand what you are saying.    If you truly want to help SchH, why don't you start your own club and encourage newbies to join in?  Show people out there that the world is still full of people that want to help.

Harddawg...I have an american bulldog that is very defense oriented vs prey (80-20 split).  I also have bulldogs that are the other way around 80 prey and 20 (if that) defense.  In my experience, the dog either has it or it doesn't.  Its very obvious which dogs on my yard bite for real and which ones don't/won't...different lines/genetics.  THAT day during THAT evaluation, the dog (agar) didn't seem to have a lick of defense...he showed no desire (not a tail wag, a bark or even pulling to the end of his leash) when she was "attacked", had a gun pointed at her, and she was screaming bloody murder-and screaming the dogs name.  After AGAR was worked, he tried to climb into Tim's lap...tried to lick me in the face and on the hands...along with licking other members and nudging them for petting...this was immediately after outting a sleeve.  It seems to me that if there were any defense to bring out, it wouldn't be pretty to get to it.  He is sleeve oriented and loves people.  He has not a mean bone in his body.

this is a lady that explained quite a dangerous home situation and a real need for a dog that would protect her.  i don't think that dog ever would.  Does that mean he's a bad dog??? NO of course NOT!  He shows GREAT promise for sport, and he's beautiful.  But she didn't purchase a sport dog, she purchased a protection dog-according to her.  Personally, I'd be upset if that was the dog I got with the home situation she has...she wanted cujo and ended up with lassie.

this is just my observation and opinion...which probably doesn't mean much LOL  I have a real loyalty to my club and all its members and I didn't feel that we were portrayed accurately.  That is the only reason for my post.

thanks

Aimee

Get a Real Dog-  I agree. lol  But thanks for the heads up-you're a bit late though I didn't get warned until after the fact.  Hey I wanted to send you an email but you don't have one listed.  Can you email me so I can contact you off the board? 

Not gonna get reeled into the drama, that was not what Flips thread was to go off with.

Oh Agar, so sorry yo got mixed up with that bunch. Hope your dog isn't scared for life after being "worked" by Tim. Yea I like how he outed himself and then sent a woman to do his talking for him. Haven't we already been there, done that Mercedes? LOL

Good point. I would love to, but I am a father of 4 and dont have the time. And you have a lack of interest in my area, plus you have a very "elite" (so elite they dont return my calls) club from a very well known Nationals winner and World team member. My club would suffer, I have thought about it, but my helper skills are not what they need to be in order to do anyone's dog any good and I just dont know anyone else. I guess I can only offer my advice and services. Maybe I should just let it go.......

Either way, thanks for the challenge. Duly noted.....

I put another post back on the other post tooo. 

Will

Will do

Flip what state are you in?  If I have it right, I train with that person on occasion.

4pack- why didn't you have my back girlfriend? lol  You should've gave me a heads up on who's who. lol  Luckily there wasn't a whole lot done with Agar that day and there will never ever be again-not there.  It's a shame cause some of the people were really nice; just very misled.  Lesson learned.  Had to share the experience and didn't want to mention names cause that's not my style but when the cat was let out of the bag there was enough said right there.  I never even had to say another word.