Nature VS Nurture/Tino's Evaluation PT 1 - Page 3

Can someone please explain what "Bad Nerves" are ?? To me that is something that needs a valium lol

Bad nerves can be translated into a lot of different things .....not stable would pretty much sum it up.....

LOL! Yeah Valium might help if he were a human!  I think simply put he is nervous about different stimuli and Tino's reaction is to try to ward it off with acting aggressive. He sees alot of things (like your son or men) as a threat even though they may not be a threat. Another kind of nerve problem would be timid, tail tucking,avoidance, looking for a place to hide... On the other end of the spectrum is good nerve, confident in strange situations. Thats the best way I can explain it, maybe someone else can do better.

Trailrider, that is a perfect explanation for me, ty :)
When Justin is around he does drop his tail and lower his head as well as pin the ears. I always thought ear pinned flat against the head was akin to the same with horses, watch for the bite/kick/throw lol

Trailrider, Blitz is just like  your bitch. I socialized him and did all the things one is supposed to do with a GSD puppy. Still he is not reliable around strangers.  Both parents were super friendly dogs, he's the odd ball of the litter of 11. I couldn't ask for a better dog with people he knows. We manage him pretty the same as  you do your girl and so far he has never bitten anyone. The closest he came was taking 2 visitors by their hands and pulling them out of the yard. He didn't leave a mark, but I still considered that a bite. Now we no longer give him the opportunity to have contact with strangers.

Shandra, if you are prepared to handle Tino the way Trailrider does her dog, it could work out OK for you. My big concern is that he does not like your child and that's going to take some extra caution on your part. Good luck.

Shandra,

Well it seems like you are confident in what you are doing when it comes to correcting the dog. I never said to not correct the dog for aggressive behavior towards you. That is a completely different story. You said the dog did not show aggression towards you.(If it does I don't think it will end up pretty)

So I guess you can keep correcting the dog for fearful behaviour.

Or you can research counter conditioning and desensitization. Here are a couple of links for you.

http://www.clickertrainusa.com/dcc.htm

http://www.idahohumanesociety.com/caretrain/fearful.html

Pay close attention to "What not to do"

http://www.animalhumanesociety.org/bhv_desensitization.asp

With this type of training the ability to "read" a dog is essential. You will have to determine if you can do that.

If you choose to continue to correct this dog, let me know how that works out for you.

Good luck.

Gard;  She is in over her head    any correction she does now is wrong...the dog is a basketcase from wrong breeding ,wrong training and wrong environment and pawned off on her....

Dont bother the breeder, unless he is the one that sold him to the previous owner....and he knew this dog had problems...anyone can see that    ...if you are a german shepherd trainer or breeder of caliber found her on database...Shandra.....it is not your fault....nothing we can tell you will correct it....it takes months and months to undue wrong breeding and wrong training and even the best trainer Dean Calderon ,Ivan or T or Wallace, or Ricky Haygood or on and on  or Gard would try.....

Advertise this animal in the paper to a home needed for a german shepherd to a one owner home for a pet or one owner companion.....sell him for little and send him on,,,Do not go on and on to the new owner either....just tell them , he only likes one person at a time and he did not work out for my son and I....end of story ..put the ad in paper , have them meet you in the park away from your home and let them meet him and crate this sucker.....he is dangerous....do not take him in a car without a crate....that is a liability...and do not put him in the meet everyone situation......he doesnt need to meet everyone.....that is not how you correct this dog....you are showing that dog insecurity....He already knows you are scared to death....he feels it   he also knows it.....you are next    your arm or face may disappear if you try to correct him.......you dont have the experience,,,,,and none of us can even get started on where to begin....and if you have thousands of dollars , and  7 days a week to spend on this....its hereditary and environment both.......

Put the ad in the paper......discussing it with all the previous owners is not the answer...Id run the other way from them.....

Shandra-  I know all that you've heard is hard for you to swallow and you appear to be very stubborn. lol  But please for the love of god LISTEN to what the people that know the breed are telling you.  This is a bad and very dangerous situation for anyone that interacts with this dog- even you.  And if you think this dog loves you so much he'd never eat you- think again.  Please don't try to put a pinch collar on him and correct him; I'm concerned we'll be reading about you in the paper.  I had an Akita about 10 years ago I got as a puppy from a boyfriend who brought him home for my birthday.  I not knowing much about the breed fell in love with his beauty; he looked like a baby bear.  At 15 months old he wanted to eat everyone and anyone except me and the people in our family.  I took this as him being "protective" because I did not know any better.  I never ever in a million years would have thought this dog would bite me til one night I went to take a box of cough drops he got a hold of and was eating away from him and within 2 seconds he had my whole hand in his mouth.  Stunned and scared to death I jumped back and yelled at him, he took this stance I will never forget as long as I live, he was growling, snarling, hair was up and he stood very confident that now he was gonna finish me where I stood.  I grabbed a broom- it's funny now, but at the time I shit my pants, the dog just looked at me like "go ahead, what are you gonna do with that broom lady"  I got scared because this only made him angrier.  I put the broom down and walked away from him-he went about his business.  The following day he walked around like King Tut, knowing I was afraid of him.  I no longer trusted this dog- not around me, my kids, or anyone.  As much as I loved him there was no way I was able to keep him in my home. I felt like you did; who'd want a dog like this and to not tell someone would be a big injustice.  I contacted a guy who had the Akita rescue, I told him the situation and he came out to evaluate the dog while educating me at the same time on the breed itself.  He felt this dog could live with a single person, no kids, no other animals, fenced yard with a lot of property in a more rural setting and he would keep him until he was able to place him with the right home.  I checked on the dog several times over the next several months and one day the man from the rescue told me he placed the dog with a guy that was perfect for him.  My suggestion to you is to do as Blitzen suggested and contact a rescue.  It's really your only option.  But if you choose to be stubborn and think you can work this out- I can tell you right now if it ends in disaster; I'd keep it to yourself because this board has tried to empathetically offer you sound guidance, should you do the extreme and not listen then I doubt you'll get much sympathy the next time around.  BTW-  Why would you breed this dog??

Shandra,

Why do you keep putting your child in jeopardy of getting injured by this dog?  Were you not raised with the notion that your kids safety comes first?  You say that you care soooooo much about the dog but sad as it appears you care a great deal more about the dog than your SON!  Tino has enough issues that it renders him unsafe to your child! 

Just wait, ya'll, she will come on here and ask what to do because the dog bit or worse mauled the son!

I have no tollerance for people like Shandra who can't see that there is danger to her own FLESH AND BLOOD and continues to ignor the issues of the dog and putting the dog before her son.  If and when the dog decides he is higher in the pack than your son you will be sorry and the dog is only doing what comes natural.  The dog has an inate instinct to know when there is an illness that inflicts a member of the pack, then the dog will do what most pack leaders do.  Eliminate the weaker pack member......your SON!!

SIGH!  A potential mark against German Shepherds being labeled as viscious dogs!  All because she loves that dog more than her son!

Vickie

www.PowerHausKennels.com

QUOTE "To everyone that has avised me to rehome him. I appreciate your advice and comments and yes I do take it to heart. What is not understood is that I dont have the option to just rehome him at the snap of a finger. I am in a small town of 5400. There are limited options. I have to have a workable solution while I am trying to find that home. Do I want to exhaust all other options before getting rid of him? Yes, if it will help him. If it wont then I am not going to.  It has been stated that even experienced handlers/trainers would not want him. Limits my choices. He paces endlessly when he is put out in the yard alone. I had put weight on him and now he has paced all that weight off again so keeping him seperated has created another issue."

I am not trying to be argumentive here but where in those 2 paragraphs did I say I was not going to find him a new home??
When I considered purchasing him I ask what I thought were all the right questions. He had been around children, was good with kids I was told.

GARD, Thanks for the links, I appreciate the attempt to educate me further about what should be done but I have already decided, as much as I would like to keep Tino he needs to go elsewhere. I will keep those links for futher reading and education :)

Yellowrose, I appreciate your comments, I am not afraid of this dog even tho perhaps I should be. I could not in good concience pass this dog on to someone else with as little information as I got. What if he seriously harmed someone the first few days they had him? It would be my fault for not fully disclosing the issue. If I had been fully informed I would not have gotten him.
Perhaps the previous owner did not know about the issues, he had been kenneled and as far as I know not exposed to the situations I have exposed him to. I do not know for sure.

I may be able to return him to the breeder I got him from,( not his original breeder) I am checking on that.

Since puppies are due by next weekend, does anyone have suggestions for socialising them to help prevent this unwanted behaviour surfacing in them? I do not want them to end up the same way as the daddy.

Thanks for the advice

Therese