NASS commentary - Page 2

Good question, Zuchtwart.  It seems odd to me that a dog would be considered a "USA" dog only because the bitch dropped her puppies on US soil instead of on her native soil.  A bit of a stretch, don't you think?

How many of these dogs are HOT?  I don't see that any dogs have been identified as such.  Surely some handlers are training their own dogs, aren't they??

Any one?

Yvette,

I have seen bitework and videos (including those taken by myself) at several "sieger shows" in the United States. Dogs may get pronounced ratings so long as they show sufficient courage to engage and to hang on by a canine tooth.

I've seen where well-known breeder/handlers have be given second chances and asked to leave the protection field and given the opportunity to repeat their routines later on. Even with second chances, the dogs manage to fail.

I've also read bitework critiques by spectators who have reputations for being fairly sophistocated. They may describe a dog's courage test as awesome when the handler has literally thrown the dog down the field to generate increased momentum to slam into the helper--even when the same dog is vocalizing, munching the sleeve before outting, and showing all sorts of handler conflict (looking over his shoulder as the handler approaches, etc.).

In one "official" video, a helper may be heard to give the out command or to stick the dog from under the sleeve. On the same video, a dog leaves the helper during the "guarding" phase, returns half-way to the handler, and is sent again. Yes, these same dogs received pronounced ratings and often VA or high V placements.

And people wonder why there is a rift between working line and show line supporters?  I have seen some awesome show line dogs work so I'm not putting them all in the same bunch.  I've seen some working line dogs not work.  But when you have the "cream of the crop"  the "best of the best"  I would expect to hear a bit more solid performances.

Louise, OMG!  That's awful!!  Is this true?  How the heck is that kind of crap tolerated?!?  If it's true, then it's a complete travesty. 

Does anyone have any video?   I'd like the chance to make up my own mind, preferrably without having to flush time and money on the travel.  If I fly halfway across the country to see what you have described, I would be furious.

Hello Yvette,

Until you have personally put yourself and a dog of your breeding on any Sieger Show field, anywhere in the world, I would suggest some reserve in your arm-chair commentary.  Since you live reasonably close to me, I invite you to come and see VA-Gorbi v. Kirchenwald in training, perhaps even hold him on a leash (if you have sufficient muscle).  Real, tough, bite suit work is child's play for this dog. 

The day that you take your dog to a strange field for a trial (yes, to take a calculated risk, but also to support another local club and other friends), just 3 days back from an international flight (and vastly different training agendas), and have never worked said dog on the trial helpers or on the somewhat curious field layout, then--and only then--do you earn the right to make derogatory comments in an international forum.  FYI, many very strong dogs don't look terrific on weaker, less imposing helpers. 

As far as American bred goes, the designation (for me) is simple.  Gorbi is the result of my studied vision of an ideal GSD, both in anatomy and character. His great-grandmother (VA-Brenda Messebau) is alive and well--and still doing bitework--at 14.5 years of age.  His grandfather (VA-Drake v. Kirchenwald) was SG-5 at the German Sieger Show.  Gorbi represents the third generation of my work with this mother line.  For me, "American Bred" means the result of work done by an American breeder.  The best breeders choose their ideal stud dogs for their females, irregardless of where those stud dogs might live geographically.

Please consider this post a warning growl.  Some of us show "bitches" are fully capable of pronounced, full and very deep bitework.  You don't need to see videos of any of my dogs.  You are close enough to see them in person.  Get off your couch and put your butt where your mouth is.  Please bring your dog as well.  It would be very interesting to see how strong your dog looks on a strange field with a strange helper (just in training, never mind trial pressures...)  I dare you!  The challenge has been laid.  Will you have the courage to accept the challenge?  Frankly, I doubt it.

Gayle Kirkwood

What is the value of such a NASS???   open males 30 dogs  and 10 American VA,s  ........... so  this is the elite in the US...

I personally trained my dog, Santo von der Neuen Welt who went V-4, and personally put a BH, SchH1, SchH2 & SchH3 on him. I handled him for his KKL1. My son and I are the only people who show trained him. I handled him for the protection work at the NASS. Rather than brag about his protection work, ask someone who saw his bite work on Saturday. My son Skyler showed him both at the Stand for Examination and during the show on Sunday.

Santo was bred by Dr. Herbert Preiser and both of his parents were born and have lived their whole lives in the United States. The father is Drago v. Huerta Hof (Carlos Huerta's fine V male from Freeport, Illinois) The mother is Xenia von der Neuen Welt (bred by Dr. Preiser in Northbrook, Illinois)

Ray Silvertrust

RAY     congrats to you , I respect what you have done , and maybe just for that you had deserved some places

Just as another data point, I'd like to mention that Gayle's VA (!) Gorbi did exceptional bitework only a few weeks ago in Germany on yet another strange field with strange helpers in front of a stadium with thousands of people, loud speakers, and all sorts of other distractions, including being tired from a long international trip.    NOT so easy!  

Julia in Dallas

Love to hear the talk, wish we ( Beckett & I ) could have been there to see. Anyone have videos of Gorbi & Santo?? This 1 winged wonder can only watch from the sidelines for now,( extreme sidelines ).Thanks, jackie