working dog prices?? - Page 10

There are good dogs being produced on both sides of the pond. Unfortunately the gene pool is larger in Germany/Europe than it is here even yet. Logistics in this country are a major problem so we tend to have little "pockets" of dogs of the same lines around the country so if you don't see them in major events or travel a LOT its hard to see many dogs US breedrs are producing that you might want in your program. Much easier to drive around a small country with a high concentration of dogs, clubs, events. Amazing how much ground one can cover and how many kennels/clubs/event one can visit in a week or two over there, while it takes nearly two days to get a little over 1/3 of the way across the country here, and that only if the weather permits.

Example: I took a nice female to Germany to breed to a dog I had always admired on paper and by record awhile back. Long story short, I got to the club where he was, didn't like him in person, cancelled the breeding and headed out the club gate. No problem. I got on the handi, and by the end of the day I had inspected three more excellent dogs with similar credientials that suited her perfectly. Two days later we returned home, her pregnant with a litter I could be proud of. I probably couldn't do that here. By the time I got to the next prospective sire, perhaps a thousand miles away, she'd have gone out of heat. If I use a stud dog locally, chances are I am competing with the dog's owner for the few working homes available in the area for that dog's puppies... not the most important factor when one is breeding a very good female, but always a consideration for a breeder hoping to get their pups into working homes.

Just a few thoughts to provoke stimulating discussion... Now its time to go back out into the freezing cold and work with the rest of the dogs before it snows. (UG)

SS

BTW: The dog I elected not to breed to was Xato bosen Nachbarschaft. Hated his weird facial markings and REALLY hated him leaving the field to terrorize a baby puppy sitting with its handler clear over by the club house. I don't need that.

<SHE> Chris - thanking you for the sites - but think you need to investigate the breedings better.  Sch3 bitches carry more weight than untitled ones when recommending a breeder. 

<HE> Chris - yes - I understand that.  And I got thinking faster than typing.  Yes, I want titles - unless dogs are certified to be "real" working dogs - not micky mouse SAR who never do anything than play in woods but real dogs on police forces or producing police dogs if bitches - DOCUMENTABLE. And yes, seeing the work important.  But refuse to limit myself to dogs I can physically see work locally.  or in a single trial.  Combo of networking through people via real conversations and pedigrees and credentiasl

hti send too soon

Christopher - you don't want me to get started on making people think too much.  this site could be so beneficial if not overun by people who have no clue and get on here and claim such understanding, knowledge and state their rigid opinions and truly have no clue!  Way  too many "breeders" who produce nothing unless they get lucky and find one or two buyers who manage to find a club to train in and the TD can pamper their dog through a title with a santa claus judge.  And breeders who breed based on a few comments they see on a dog and have no clue what they could get except that they can advertise puppies  whose 3rd gen grandparents are XXX and YYY.  And have never seen a good dog trial.  Or they take a marginal female to some big name dog whose owner does not care except for his stud fee.   I look at the ads and get depressed for the breed.  It is really sad what people do to a magnificient breed in pursuit of money.

as shelly says, too much space here, small pockets of dogs whose claim to fame is a grandfather or two via an unknown son/sire/dam.  Too many bottlenecks of bloodlines.   too many "breeders" producing too many pups with watered down genes because they don't have connections to get GOOD breeding stock from Europe.  Too few good females whose owners actually breed for reason rather than convenience (Congratulations on your forethought <SHE> Chris!)

Interesting Xato story - who did you end up breeding to Shelly?  BTW heard similar stories from a few contacts in Germany about Xato and what he produced as well.  Then saw a couple  that proved the genetics carried and heard of others that were here in states. 

Where have I been looking for a quality, healthy GSD pup?  Just about everywhere.  LOL.  I've been through American, West German, DDR, Czech, Dutch lines and crosses.  I've bought my dogs in the US and imported from Germany.  Male, female, big boned, fine boned.  Yada yada yada. 

Yes, I have had 8 week GSD pups bite the burlap right out of the box, but none with the speed, intensity, and depth that my hubby's little 6 lb 3 oz Mali did at that same age. 

I do not dispute the fact that there are show Mali's and nerve bag Mali's and health issues in Mali's.  I can only speak from my personal experience, and from other facts that I have seen.  If one is to trust the statistics of the OFA database, it shows that the Belgian Malinois breed as a whole has better hips and elbows than GSD's.  Talking with Mali breeders for hubby, I found far more Mali's with OFA Excellent than the paltry 3-4% or so of GSD's that get ranked up there.

I personally did not run into any Mali breeders with 6-8 litters a year, or even more than two.  Some only bred occasionally because they insisted on getting enough reservations to place all the pups in working homes.  The typical Mali would NOT be a good fit for a pet home.  I've run into a lot of GSD breeders, on the other hand, who advertise their litters for working or pet homes.

Call it bad karma.  Lucky #7 is on the way (maybe)

I ended up breeding my bitch to Fero. The litter wasn't a huge success. Oh well. It sure looked good on paper. Actually I am not really sure she WAS bred to Fero. He was pretty old. Hubert had another gray dog in the kennel, younger, when I dropped her off. Chances are the litter may have been sired by the other dog but we'll never know... That was the LAST time I dropped a female off and left her for breeding... Live and learn.