working dog prices?? - Page 2

I agree, $ 2,500 for a puppy is crazy! I have an all black working line litter (currently 4 weeks old), sired in Germany, both parents V-rated with a track record for excellent progeny, both SchH3 FH1 and my price was $ 1,500. I think that was very reasonable, and no, this is not a sales pitch. They are already all spoken for with a couple more people on the waiting list, in case somebody backs out. I base my prices on my expenses. Having said that: Kudos to you John, that you can afford to offer puppies, bred in Germany and sired over here for $ 500 to $1,000. Please let me in on your secret how you do that, especially with the dollar rate so high, compared to the Euro.

While I agree that puppies sired in Germany are not necessarily better than the ones sired over here, I have to say that I usually find better matches for my females in Europe. I look at progeny and try to judge if it has what my girls are lacking and/or if I like the type a certain male produces and wish to add it to my breeding program. We all have our visions on what a dog is supposed to look like and what he can do. Mine , for both my showlines and my workinglines is that breeding stock should be titled, V-rated and surveyed in KKL1.

Chris

I think $1,500 for a working line pup is about it.  Like you said it is still a crap shoot. I have a Galant P.S. daughter who is now certified asa acadaver dog and working for a Sch. title. She was $1,500 from Eurosportu.

Why do people pay so much? Some lack of knowledge, some because they can and some because they want to brag!!!

Sarah & K-9 Kaylee

 my  dogs were not bred in germany.  all were born here in the USA.  the notion that only the best dogs come from europe is silly to me.  while it may be true that most great breeders keep the best dogs for themselves, it is not  unheard of for some of them to "slip through the cracks" and end up in the USA.  

i have seen and spoken to way too many people to count, who think they are getting a better puppy because

1 - it was bred somewhere else

2- they paid more for it

3- they were sold on a sales pitch

i dont charge more for my pups because i am not doing this for money.  i dont give my pups away because  I do want them to go to loving, working homes. 

some of the best dogs i have seen are the ones at the local club with new handlers, who dont really know what they have on the end of their leash.

john

We have sold pups for $1200 from import litters but usually we sell our pups for $1000 or less.  This is all the money needed to get a top working prospect IMO.  

Robin

www.klatolklin.com 

John,

I do agree that imports are not necessarily better. On the contrary, often there is a reason for selling them abroad. But I am not talking about importing individual dogs. What I meant was taking my female to Germany to a stud and breed her over there. I truly think that there are better matches, simply because of the amount of dogs there and the progeny available to look at. To me, there is more to breeding than just my club member's male because he bites well and looks decent. Over here, there are simply too many breeders who ride on the accomplishments in their litters' pedigrees, not on the actual parents themselves. It is equally important to have titled and surveyed parents. Otherwise, we are not any better than a lot of the AKC breeders and we will end up loosing this working ability within a few generations. That is why the SV breeding system is held in such high regards. As a longtime breedwarden and tattooer team, my husband and I have seen many litters (including workinglines) where the temperament was at best questionable. Up until about 10 years ago or so, it was also possible to register litters out of untitled parents with USA. 

Chris             

Hi Chris,

i agree with what you say (or type as the case may be, lol). 

i just feel that there are a lot of really nice dogs that have a lot to offer  here in the USA that get overlooked because too many people think  it is better to get a pup or dog from Germany or some other country. 

as long as people keep up this trend, we will never have the number of progeny to look at here in the USA.  so we go back to someplace else again.  the cycle continues.  

question,,, why are there no kennels in the USA that have the reputation as ........

Karthago, Tiekerhook, von der bösen Nachbarschaft, von der Maineiche, etc.....

john

start looking  at kennels here in the south, price of livin is lower...so therefor same dogs ( well dogs just as good) are lower prices......

This is a rehash, but.... Value is relative. What is worth X dollars to you may not be to me or vice versa. The price you pay for a puppy will be the least of your expenses when it comes to working dogs; make sure you get a good one. By that, I mean set yourself up for the best chance of success. Buy from a breeder that has an excellent record. I DIDN'T SAY GOOD RECORD, I SAID EXCELLENT! Research, research, research. Increase your odds of success by knowing your lines and what to expect. A great breeder will help you with this; so will a decent club. Do you want an off the wall drive crazy dog (my favorite) or do you want something that is a little easier for the family to live with? Personally I want something that can be a top competitor.

Go look at the mother and father, if possible. Videos help, but they're not the same. My breeder spent 3 hours with me and allowed me to visit with the puppies and the mother. I also spoke to the breeders family quite a bit. The people involved had impeccable reputations and I felt very good about the litter. Additionally, I took a friend who had over 25 years experience. I knew I would choose more emotionally than he would. The pup I got was not the one I would have picked; it was my second choice. It was the right one!! He is now a year old. So far he is an excellent tracker, looking pretty nice in obedience and right on track in protection (I don't push real hard on young dogs in protection.)

I paid more for this pup than most of you would, but I knew what I wanted. I am as happy today as the day I bought the dog. When it comes down to it, it's a crap shoot. You can increase your chance of success and therefore the value of your purchase by working as hard at purchasing the dog as you will be working at training it. Trust is a wonderful thing, but research is what will make you successful. By the way I spent 9 months doing research and trying to locate the pup that was right for me. How many folks buy on a whim?

Spook, congratulations! This is the kind of attitude every puppy buyer should have. The buyer should envision the kind of dog she or he wants and follow that lead. I am not a puppy buyer, I am a breeder, but this is how I would pursue my idea as well. A buyer should think of what is desired: a serious competitor, a show dog or a great family companion and never get sidetracked. If she or he realizes that the puppy will be more than she or he is able to spend (after checking with several breeders), more money needs to be saved and put aside. The worst attitude is the one a lot of buyers have: I want a puppy right now!

John, no kennels over here will ever be able to compete with the ones in Europe. The reasons are multiple, and I have mentioned a few already:

1) Geography. Example: I am on the East Coast. It is almost as far for me to fly to Europe than to Canada or the West Coast. Therefore, I look to Germany for a suitable stud for my female. Distance over here is always a big problem. In Europe, I drive a few hours and I am in the next country.

2) Lack of truly knowledgable breeders here. The breeders you mentioned (or some of it) and other successful ones are looking for the total dog. Successful workingline breeders will never ignore structure and show ratings of breeding partners. I see evidence of that every day by just logging on Schaeferhund.net, the largest workingline forum in Germany. When I see some of these dogs here on the PDB or just in my region's clubs I cringe when I hear that people also intend to use them for breeding. Sorry I do not mean to offend anybody, but we do have a breed standard here. Yes, they have these kind of dogs in Germany as well, but please go and take a good look at the websites of the successful kennels: What do they breed with?

3) Prices: In Germany, people do not charge astronomical prices for stud fees. A fee for a workingline stud is 400 to 600 Euro, for show lines it is 600 to 1000 Euros. Yes, I know when you take the current exchange rate under consideration, it is not so economical right now. But a breeder should also have the same attitude like Spook has: You envision something and you should follow that lead.

I can probably come up with a lot more reasons, but I have not had my morning coffee yet.

Regards, Chris

Some breeders can legitimately charge higher prices for their pups.  Of course, poor breeders see these prices & jump right on the bandwagon & charge the same.  It's up to the buyer to seperate the wheat from the chaff.  As spook so elequently pointed out, the price of the pup is really nothing compared to what you will pay for the dogs care over it's lifetime.