working dog prices?? - Page 4

Don:

I think you missed the point, and the attempted humor in my post.

Real? Please define "real."  If you mean do pups from parents I breed produce titled, Koer'd pups who will protect their owners in the face of a serious threat?   Yes.

If you mean do they want to eat people as they come through my door, or tear the windows out of my van in parking lots scaring the crap out of innocent passer's by?  No. Thank God...

The Pom thing was supposed to be humorous... So my future as a stand up comic is in jeapardy. I can live with that... And yes, those are my initials, SS, at the bottom of the page. They stand for my "screen name" which just happens to be my real name. No hiding here. I also post my phone number from time to time.

Sorry for any confusion.

SS

Shelley (Roecker) Strohl

I don't know Wayne Curry, never had any contact with him. But he is a world level competitor and dogs are his business. Looking at his website, he employs 5 (!!) people and his place is immaculate. Not too many people here in the U.S. can be compared to him. If I was a newbie and wanted to have a decent puppy with nice German workinglines I would not hesitate to buy from him. $2,500? Oh well, by the time I calculate all costs of importing a puppy from Europe through a broker, I bet it will be about the same. Of course, if I am not a newbie and if I have contacts and experience, I go else there and get a puppy for maybe half a price, lol. I have to say half a price because I just received an email from a good friend who pointed me to Kraftwerk's S-litter: This litter is out of V-Paska vom Salztalblick and an SG-rated black female (one of the best black females in this country, as he writes). He wants $3,000 for this "special rare opportunity". My last litter was also out of V-Paska and a V-rated black female and was exactly half the price of his. And I want to wager a bet that my female is better than his. But... He has to make a living off his business, I only have my dogs as a hobby, big difference. As to Tiekerhook? Where do all these dogs go? I don't see many or any in the successfull WL pedigrees or in competition. What does he do with all the puppies out of these outrageous incest breedings? Breedings like that are experiments. Statistics dictate that a lot or most of these puppies do not turn out. Does he cull them? Or does he sell them to Asia, South America, the U.S.?  I think that certain European kennels (show and working alike) rarely sell their dogs on the European/German market but exclusively cater to the foreign market. It is a big enterprise afterall. I could name quite a few overrated kennel names but that does not serve a purpose other than mud slinging.

Chris

SS, I don't think he was asking if your dogs were real, but rather are those things, on your chest real?  At least that's they way my mind works

Chris, well said.

GARD got his dog for $600. I paid $1000 and got much better that what we looked at for $1500. NO way would I pay more that $1500 for a pup period and at that price, it better be EXACTLY what I am looking for. There are an abundance of great pups out there for $1000. So far I havn't seen a pup for $1500 who's breeder has enough info posted about it on their website to make me bite. Pedigree is one thing but if you wanna sell me a pup for $1500 you better have your digital video camera ready to go, the phone in your hand and a tarp, shaker bottles, rattle stick, a garbage bag full of eluminum cans and a ball in hand and do what I ask before I am sending a dime.

It's unreasonable to be restritcted to your area where you can view pups personally, and financially I can't fly from city to city looking at litters. This is what I ask for to make up for our U.S. georaphical handycap. Everyone likes to point out space when it is convenient for stud service or training but the same goes for buying pups. I don't have 15 breeders within driving distance who carry the lines and drives I want. Actually I don't have any. Most of the GSD'd here are Show line and the working dogs are not the lines I seek, even if there were I don't want what everyone else at the local clubs have. Somebody has to bring fresh dogs in and this is one way of doing that.

Puppy buyers you need to stand up and ask more from your breeders. Wouldn't you ask as much if you were buying an adult dog? I like to leave less to chance and more to informed knowledge, when purchasing a pup.

wow...with all due respect,thanks for the "beat down"!back yard breeder...yup,that would be me! of the two breedings i've done("A,and B" litters),one is a certified police dog from the "A- LITTER",and my personal dog"A-DINO" has his BH and is continueing in his training...all pups from both litters are doing great,with no apprent health issues and everyone who got a pup from me seems very satisfied(blind luck)!no pup from either litter sold for more than 400.00$.....i applaud the serious breeders that go the "extra mile" and invest the time and big bucks to put out absolute quality....my puppy sales(and i rarely even breed)feeds the other dogs(i have three males"ENZO VOM DUNHILL/BH-WH,A-DINO VOM OST SEE/BH,UWE VOM AUSLAND/BH).surely with your massive efforts,silbersee...you're able to target a more specialized market than i could ever dream to reach....yet that's not my goal or focus...when i feel like breeding,i'll breed!go to the best quality i can afford and have pups that the average family or trainer can afford and enjoy....i do not downplay the efforts of the serious breeder....my area of enjoyment in the dog sport is that of spectator..i love seeing the top trainers put it on the field,and since i live in the southeast...we're blessed to be able to watch the top competitors at major events...so again,i'm not a competitor nor do i wish to be,but that doesn't disqualify me from wanting to get a working pup from good pedigree and hopefully at least put a BH on the dog....i'm one of the "little guys",and that doesn't bother me one bit...!

SS, I don't think he was asking if your dogs were real, but rather are those things, on your chest real?  At least that's they way my mind works

Yeah... they're real, and more's the pity. Anyone wanna loan me a few thousand for a breat reduction? I'm getting tired of falling out of my shirt stacking dogs, and my knees are so shot it hurts to knee, thus all the bent-over-straight-legged shots.

I'd be happy to auction off a couple of bra sizes to anyone who needs them. Shipping not included. Ha ha ha

SS

Ostsee,

please read my post again. I was referring to your statement, not your breeding practices. I did not even know that you are a breeder.

I am glad that you were able to sell your puppies for $ 400 and that none showed health problems. Good health should be the minimum everybody can expect from a breeder. Where did you take your female to? How far did you have to go?

As to your remarks regarding "targeting a specialized market", "serious breeders" and this "not being your goal or focus": That is sad! You are further stating that your puppy sales feed your three males. This to me sounds that you are breeding to generate an income to afford your dogs? If I am mistaken with my assumption, I am sorry. But these were your words, not mine! Please read your own statement again!

The breeding of German Shepherd Dogs should never target a "specialized market" but should be done in accordance with the philosophy of our founder. This reminds me of a former club member of mine who bred a couple of pet litters, so she could afford a "well bred" dog. A wellbred litter will have nice pet quality puppies too, so there should never be a need to breed for pets. Pet quality puppies in well bred litters will be sold at a significantly reduced price, mine do. But they come with a stipulation: They will have limited AKC registration, and this is where a lot of so-called "pet owners" want to draw the line ("oh I don't want to breed but I am not sure if I change my mind").

Something else I would like to mention, Ostsee: It is a common misconception here in the U.S.. A BH is not a recognized title, it is merely a prerequisite for a SchH1. The origin for this was that the SV in Germany had to show the general public that these "biting" dogs were obedient, had good temperament and were under control at all times. The funniest thing is that some people call it the "SchH B". I guess they think if there is a SchH A (no tracking and not recognized as a title either) , there should be a SchH B. The WH is also not a recognized title for a breeding qualification. Only the VPG1 (SchH1) or the HGH is.

I also wanted to mention that being "one of the little guys" or something similar was never at topic here. Anybody who is doing dog sports (regardless of what it is) has my utmost repsect. And any pet quality dog on limited AKC registration is perfectly capable of participating in any sport. So, there is hope for the "little guys" to purchase a wellbred puppy at a reduced price after all.

Chris

It's all just "market value" anyway. 

If you're sick of GSD puppy prices, then maybe consider another breed to get better value.  This year my hubby and I bought our first Malinois puppy, out of one of Ivan's retired competition males, Turcodos.  The price was an unbelieveably low $1300 considering the caliber of his breeding program, and the dogs used in this breeding. 

I'm a shepherd woman at heart and I tried hard to get him to consider a GSD.  Unfortunately with the current going rate of $1000 - $1500 for a "good" GSD working line puppy, there was no way I could persuade him to pass up on the opportunity to get a Mali from a world class breeder and trainer at a comparable price.

Gah!  I can't win!

Have you ever calculated how much will cost a working dos during all his life?

Let's say 8 yars (around 100 months).Food, Vet , training, trials, trips, etc.....

The iniial pice does not make much diference at all.