I WANT Dogs Trained !!! anyone can help ??? - Page 7

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Mystere

by Mystere on 31 October 2007 - 20:10

VKFGSD writes:    "Other board members a suggestion if I may. A closed mind can not be educated or changed. You've tried - it's not working nor will it work .My suggestion is you try "shunning". Either do not respond to EM posts because yes they are all about HER and not the dogs or better I suggest every time she writes resond with "Shame Shame". That way if anyone is researching her on the web they will quickly gather there is a reason to look further."

 

I agree 100%!!   It is like a small child having a tantrum:  when you can, you walk away and they soon learn that they cannot get attention that way.    All EM is after, apparently, is attention, even negative attention.   It is sick and offensive that anyone feels the need to behave that way.  But, perhaps our responding to her does not seem to help the situation.  ...unless you ask interminably about the club and training director.  That does appear to shut her up! 


by VKFGSD on 31 October 2007 - 21:10

A quick note re the poor rescue who started this firestorm. I do not know what her problems are  because I am not willing to read 25 pages of EM self promotion and bitching and hysteria. However it does seem that she has acknowledged that there are some "issues" which make the dog more difficult to place.

EM I ask at least this of you. Please read and try to understand this.

If you are to persist in "rescue" dogs when placing one this is to whom you owe an obligation- 1. to the dog that it obtain a safe and loving home 2. to the person "adopting" ( or in you case purchasing - shame shame) the dog - that the dog is safe to be around 3. to the world at large- that the dog is safe and not a danger to anyone and 4. MOST OF ALL you owe an obligation to our beloved breed wh/ you purport to love. IF this dog or any dog presents a clear possible danger to ANYONE your obligation to the dog and the breed is to be responsible as tough as that is. Be kind to the dog and be with it and hold  it but it should be put down.

But wait you say - in experienced hands this dog will be ok. Or in a home w/o children it will be ok or in a home w/o men it will be ok or in a home w/o xyz it will be ok. First of all the example of "experienced" hands . If they're experienced they can have any dog they want so why would they WANT a problem. Ergo those homes do not exist. Next in a home w/o children ( cats, ducks, martians, old people whatever). You may find the "perfect" home w/o the trigger. Doesn't mean it will stay that way. Guys get girlfriends who have kids, pets etc or  vice versa. Grandkids or neighborhood kids come to visit. The question that needs to be asked and answered as TRUTHFULLY as possible is this. In placing this dog do I have a worry or fear that sometime in the future I could be the cause for a headline reading "dog savages xyz". If there is the remotest chance of that based on behavior that you have seen you CAN NOT put that risk on another person. The reality is management fails - always. A door or gate is left open or friends w/ kids show up unexpectedly to visit or the single guy meets a mom who is the love of his life. That is the tough part of rescue - that sometimes hard decisions need to be made. I am not saying such dogs are bad dogs or mean dogs or that it is their fault. I'm just saying that sometimes the reality is that some dogs thru no fault of their own (bad genetics, bad handling, abuse, lack of proper socialization, whatever) are no longer suitable to live in civilized society. It is then your responsiblity for the safety of the public AND for the sake of the breed to make the hard but right decision involving such a dog. Most people I know who work in an animal shelter as you claim to do already understand this. If you choose to keep such a dog in your home or kennel that is your choice made knowingly and willingly but to "pass" on a potential problem is the height of irresponsiblity

As I said I do not know this dog or her issues and do not know if she falls into this category. If she even remotely does while I suggest you do the right thing for the breed I suspect you won't. In that case do the right thing for yourself and your family because if and WHEN something bad happens say goodbye to your house and your assets 'cause you will be sued and you will lose. You will lose especially big time when the jury hears that you were taking rescue dogs and selling them.


by hodie on 31 October 2007 - 21:10

VKFGSD...... My lecture exactly and one that EM probably cannot comprehend. But good try. I give this same lecture almost weekly and I deal with rescues and aggressive dogs and owners....... If one really loves the breed, or indeed any breed, one must be able to acknowledge that one cannot save every dog. I do not know all the details of this particular case, but I do know enough about EM to know she does NOT have the experience or wisdom or knowledge required to make these decisions. When people have tried and tried and tried to help her learn, she refuses. When one cannot acknowledge a problem, it cannot be fixed....PERIOD. As Blitzen so eloquently stated: " you can't fix stupid" - stupid being a failure to understand ones' limitations. Again, no one said to put the dog down, but it might be a choice. EM, in her hysteria comes here and threatens to put the dog down to punish all who have been on her case. Piss poor reasoning skills too......

yellowrose of Texas

by yellowrose of Texas on 31 October 2007 - 22:10

HODIE;;      GLAD TO SEE YOU BACK WITH US    PLEASE CONTINUE TO HELP OUR SITE      THANKS SO MUCH TO YOU!HAPPY HARVEST TO  YOU....WE VALUE YOU        ..........


ladywolf45169

by ladywolf45169 on 01 November 2007 - 12:11

Kinda off subject, but wanted to share as it seems to fit somewhat.

EM - I don't know you, your dogs, or your situation, so please don't take this the wrong way, as I am only trying to give some personal experience. 

About 10 years ago, I purchased a beautiful male GSD from my children for 4-H.  (just for the record, he was 1/2 german showlines and 1/2 AM lines)  I saw and played with the parents and all the pups with no problems.  Went to the owners house several times and spent several hours with her and her dogs, with no problems.  He was a wonderful little boy, and we named him after my son, whom passed away in 91.  This little guy went everywhere with us, and was doing wonderful in his training with the kids.  He absolutely loved children, mine and others.  By 6 mo., he was doing perfect OB (atleast for 4-H) and progressing so well that I put him in an AKC show just for fun.  He took 1st in his puppy class!!!  I was so pleased, and everyone loved him.  We had no issues with people or other animals.  At about 9 months of age, though, he turned weird.  At the time, I took him to several good trainers (proven trainers) and even a K-9 officer who had been dealing with dogs for over 20 years.  Everyone spent hours with him and me, going through training exercises, and just talking.  It was the "talking" part that really seem to get to him.  While standing or sitting there talking, he would start grawling and almost attack the other person.  I must say that he NEVER went after anyone in the family!  I took him to the vet and had a complete workup done....no reason health wise for him to be acting this way.  Every person told me the same thing....he was a wonderful dog, and was not vicious....but UNPREDICTABLE!  One weekend shortly after his last evaluation, my daughter had a friend over, that he knew.  No problem with him and the other child all weekend, until sunday morning.  the girls were sitting in front of the TV, and he came over, stood over the other child and started grawling.  I reacted immediately with a hard correction and put him in his kennel.  That afternoon, I took him to our favorite place in the woods, played with him, sat with him by the water, hugging him, kissing him, and crying.  He laid his head down in my lap, and I knew what I had to do. 

The very next morning, I took him to the vet to have him put to sleep.  It was one of the hardest things I have ever had to do.  I did it because I could not take the chance of him hurting anyone, especially a child.  And I knew that it was MY responsiblity to do the right thing.

My point is this, EM..... this is just a dog.  And even if you have done some wonderful work bringing her out of her shell, you never really know what might happen when you place this dog with someone that will trigger a neg. response.  But because you Chose to take this dog in, even with all her problems, you Chose to put the time and effort into her, and you CHOSE to advertise her for what you concider a fair price....you have to CHOOSE to do the right thing!  It's great that you say you will take her back if the situation is not right, but how will you feel if it was to late and the dog attacked and seriously hurt someone?  Now, before anyone jumps on me....I am not promoting that every dog with problems should be put down!!!!!  But we all have to look inside ourselves and do what is right for the individual situation. 

Just my 2 cents!

Chrissy


Silbersee

by Silbersee on 01 November 2007 - 13:11

I am not getting involved in the issue with EM, because it is useless.

But I wanted to tell you Chrissy, that you have my deepest respect for acting so responsible and ended up doing the right thing. Other people would have probably "sold" or "placed" the dog with somebody unsuspecting. Not every dog can be rehabilitated and rehomed!

Chris


Mystere

by Mystere on 01 November 2007 - 15:11

Chrissy, You are one of the shining lights. Hopefully, your post will help others faced with a similar decision. With deepest respect, Nia

animules

by animules on 01 November 2007 - 15:11

Chrissy,

What an hard decission to have to make, but the right one. Thank you for sharing your story.

Tina


by angusmom on 01 November 2007 - 15:11

ladywolf, this has been a somewhat crazy thread at times; along with some others your advice is very thoughful  and well reasoned. it also shows the emotional side of responsibility. well done..........we can only hope it is taken to heart.


by EchoMeadows on 01 November 2007 - 15:11

hodie..."but I do know enough about EM to know she does NOT have the experience or wisdom or knowledge required to make these decisions."    YOU KNOW THIS !!!!!   HOW do YOU know this ????   HOW can YOU the KNOW all BE all END all of GSD's who NEVER ASSUMES,  knows this ????   HOW is this possible ??????  YOU have never met me !!!   YOU have never inquired into MY education, MY experience,  MY dedication,  or otherwise !!!!

YOU DON"T KNOW CRAP  !!!     As much as I breed "Crap" dogs,  Hodie,  YOU are CRAP yourself for ATTEMPTING to DX animals for people based on description,  YOU KNOW BETTER !!!!    YET you always do it,  NO VET in the world will DX an animal based purely on description and speculation !!!    YOU DO KNOW THIS RIGHT ???? 

I have to deal with fractious animals on a DAILY Basis.... (at the shelter)   I would think that dealing with these types of animals ON A DAILY BASIS would put me in the KNOW for determining behavior on an animal THAT I HAVE PERSONALLY DEALT WITH FOR OVER A YEAR !!!!!!!     

Not to mention you have NEVER inquired as to MY education regarding my DUTIES here at the Shelter.... so once again,  I THINK YOU ARE PRESUMPTUOUS TO ASSUME that I do not have any knowledge....

ARE YOU people seriously going to argue with YOUR vets DX when YOUR vet does the bloodwork ????  and tell YOUR vet but HODIE said it's this this and this,  because I told her OVER THE INTERNET what was going on with the dog so YOU (your vet) must be WRONG !!!!   

Because Hodie is ALWAYS RIGHT !!!   AND KNOWS EVERYTHING !!!   including EM's experience and education LEVELS !!!!!

Hodie  YOU are AMAZING !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!   To KNOW all of this stuff without EVER asking the questions !!!!!!!!!!  MY GOD YOU should be a MILLIONAIRE cause your like,  Phsychic !!!!!  or is it better put Phsycho ????

I could have Respect for you if YOU could put YOUR opinion out as Exactly that......   ie.. in MY Opinion the Veterinary Mecial Board should be looking into Hodie's ONLINE VETERINARY MEDICAL PRACTICES .......






 


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