P.E.T. G.S.D - Page 2

I am wondering if this is semantics or maybe I'm too tired because I think we agree on more than we disagree about.  It has been my experience that the majority of nerve bags come from poor breeders.  I agree, there are poor breeders in all spectrums, from working line, showline & pet, just more - a lot more from the pet trade.  Sometimes a pup is not matched up with the right home, but this is no reason to breed poodles in GSD suits!

I don't think it is necessary to cater to the economic demand for GSDs.  In fact, if the demand is much higher than the supply, than it works out better for the breeders and the dogs.  I hate to sound like an elitist, but why should everyone who wants one get one? 

Really, if we could only adopt the SV system, it would certainly bode well for the breed.  I don't think too many of those BYB types would be interested if they had to jump through all those hoops, most are way too lazy.  If there are those who want to breed pet GSDs & they jump through all the hoops, more power to them! 

My way of thinking is that no one should drive a car that gets less than 42 miles to the gallon of gas.  It has all been very nicely laid out by Al Gore.  Otherwise, go with the gas guzzling SUV.....please!

Sound a little over the top?  I thought so too.

But hey, opinions are like (you know what's).  Everybody has one.

How come every time I try to have a discussion of ideas, I just get put down like I am an idiot scumbag?

The answer (which I am sure is the first thing that popped into your head) is not, "because Dor Right, you are an idiot scumbag.

I actually may be an idiot scumbag, but it stil is not the answer.

If you can't discuss ideas with logic, then sling mud, is the answer.

If'en you would like to debate the rpros and cons of the two sides of this title/breed coin, then we can, like adults.

Or, what the heck.  We can do it the usual way too.  Either one works for me.  I'm getting used to it.

Do right, lately you seem to be a little.....stressed.  No one called you an idiot scumbag.  I don't think you are an idiot scumbag.  I disagree with you, that' s all.    You on the other hand, resort to accusing anyone who disagrees with you of slinging mud or being ilogical.  You seem to think it's only about schutzhund titles for me & those like me.  I'm trying to point out that for me, it's about getting that breed survey.  Even then I don't think that qualifies anyone to breed their dog.  You still have to learn about genetics, animal husbandry, etc..  Yes, it makes me crazy that people want a dog that looks like a GSD but acts like a lap dog.  Sorry, that's not a GSD to me. 

sueincc,  just a thought....

Maybe more of us VALUE the dog that will lick the tears off the kids face AND eat the guy that tried to take our kid from the yard !!!    Ever thought of that ????

I think that is where the disagreement comes...  MOST peoples Values are different !!!!

You Value a Title

Others Value the DOG !!!

Did I get that right you guys ????

sue, sue, sue:  I am not stressed out.  Actually I am in my glory when I am discussing a subject, any subject, with someone who disagrees with me.  It keeps my mind sharp.  If we all thought alike, then the world would be a boring place.

I have noticed that when I bring up points to counter someone else's way of seeing things, they seem to either:

1.  Claim that I seem a little stressed.

2.  State that I am a liar.

3.  Disappear.

I never stated that YOU said I was an idiot or a scumbag.

You did make these statements, which were a mild mannered put down.  "It's all been very nicely laid out by the SV, why not check that out?  If you did, you would find there is a lot more to it than schutzhund titles.  Otherwise, go with the American Show Shepherd.....please !"

It would not have been too bad a statement, but you just could not refrain from throwing that "please!" with the exclamation point in there.  There is no reason for the exclamation point unless you were making a veiled snub to me.

I was born at night, but it wasn't last night.  So don't try and make it out like I am attacking you, or putting words in to your mouth.  I wanted to debate your ideas against mine.  If you do not want to do so, then click.  But you obviously wanted to debate the issue with someone, as beetree started this discussion and you joined in.

My grandmother used to call me a Philadelphia Lawyer, because I liked to argue the opposite side of whatever the other fellow was arguing, even if I really agreed with him or her.  Like I said, it keeps my mind sharp when I have to counter someone else's argument for or agin something.  (Yes, I know how to spell against).

we have high drive, working lines, from titled parents who will stop the bad guy in the yard.  AND lick the ears off the good guys and kids.   These dogs have good nerves, which is part of what is proven with the time and work put inot them prior to breeding.  These dogs pass on good nerves which is what a person should demand in a family dog.  These dogs also live in our house and sleep on the couch with our cats.   That is why knowing the dogs and what qualitites they have prior to breeding is so important.   That is why titles, breed surveys, are done.  CGC's don't mean much as I've known puppies get passed. 

an interesting concept is that no one breeds working dogs frankly.  There is not one dog on the face of the earth that is born with a schh title, sar or fema certification, herding cert, hip cert, agility title, anything.  so most of this discussion is opinion (sue's opinion, do right's opinion, my opinion, bee's opinion, etc) we cannot change or control someone's opinion, including the person purchasing a puppy from us.  we can refuse them a puppy certainly if we feel they are either abusive or possibly not up to the task for whatever reason, but once that puppy goes into someone's home, that person has a predominant position in what that dog becomes; top  competitor, top pet, degenerate digger/barker.  the dog left to it's own devises, whether PERFECTLY bred according to anyone's opinion, will never train himself in schh, drive himself to the vet for a hip picture, call the schh club for a training schedule etc. 

furthermore stats on true working dogs (keep in mind schh is a sport) like sar dogs and service dogs, show that dogs of non descript parentage are just as likely to work in the same capacity as dogs of careful and considered breeding.

in any and every organization that fosters dogs who will test to go into working situations, there is NO emphasis put on pedigree and extreme emphasis put on early and careful socialization.  I am not saying that GSD breeders need throw out the emphasis on the pedigree, the point was simply that the pedigree is set in stone.  Once the dog is bred, you cannot change genetic makeup, you cannot change  color, but you CAN distinctly make a difference in what your dog becomes.