How many of you think Working Lines are ugly? - Page 3

at our house, we enjoy both.  i guess we see them for what they are and love them for it.

pjp

Many remarks, thank you all for replying. Just some random thoughts: 

Some of you are supporting the “beauty is in the eye of the beholder” line of thought, but if you are going to follow the standard, isn’t such a belief moot? The personal taste in beauty is what has brought us to the point of having separate lines of dogs that almost look like unrelated breeds.

Maligator in my opinion summed it up best: “Beauty is as beauty does” of course with wiggle room for coat color and the like. The moment you begin to loose physical and mental soundness in lieu of preferred “looks” you have started down a detrimental path.

Two Moons and others brought up the problem of “fad breeding” not being exclusive to showlines, and I completely agree, I think a fad breeding for schuhtzhund is very preeminent amongst WL breeders.

Gsdfanatic1964 – I agree with you too, consistency of type is another reason I am drawn to the WL’s though arguably the German Showlines are also very consistent in type, though not the type I necessarily want.

DDRShep – welcome to the forum and thank you for the very impressive first post, it appears you have a wealth of knowledge and I hope you stick around a while to share it.

SchHBabe – Regarding ballsy comments, Steel M had no problem making such comments in the “So Disgusting” thread, I know there are more that think like her and I was very interested in hearing their arguments, but alas…

SS – your comments about the length of time Americans have been breeding and why we still rely so much on Europe for knowledge about the breed and breed worthy animals was interesting and insightful, thank you.

"Beauty is in the eye of the beholder" is the same as "Beauty is as beauty does".

If you think that a dog that works and performs wonderfully is the momb, then it is beautiful in your eyes for that reason.  If you like the dog because it is pleasing to your eyes looks wise, then that is what appeals to you.  If the dog appeals to you because of the way it acts or the way it behaves with you and your family, then it is beautiful in your eyes.

But:

The original question was whether or not "we" think that working lines are ugly.  That indicates to me, the question is based on looks, not working ability (which is a subject that has been discussed way too much on here).  So, based on looks, the answer should NOT include anything about working ability or the lack thereof.

Some can not let go of the opportunity to denegrate the show lines or untitled dogs or BYB's.  It is rare on this site to get an answer about anything, that does not include a sermon.

But, again, you question was based (I believe) just on looks alone.  Given that fact.  How could someone not say that a showline is prettier than a working line.  Hence the two different line names (show and working).  However, having said that, obviously, there will be a minority that do not like the current show line looks.  If it was a majority that did like the looks of the working lines, then the working lines would be known as the show lines, because everyone would be breeding for what the "public" wanted.  The BSZS is a bigger deal than the BSP, worldwide.  For a reason, right or wrong.

Back before I knew there were different lines, I thought or was made to think, showlines were what the GSD was "suppossed" to look like. After learning more and seeing many dogs and many types of GSD's, I had the knowledge to make up my own mind, not what was fed to me by TV and movies. I do like the showlines but the ones of yesterday before they really merged into different types. I find it sad that the working lines are more like the underground secret of the GSD world. Most people will pick a high line dog because this is what they see on TV or at shows.

I don't know about everybody else but for me, when the whole picture was revealed, I was estatic to know GSD's came in different colors and sizes. That they could still work for what they were bred for and there was much more variety than first thought.

The public is just in the dark and one day the BSP may very well be bigger than the BSZS for a reason, right or wrong. Just because something is bigger or more popular doesn't make it better.

Unless I'm confusing general conformation points, I think SHOW lines are "ugly" (if that's really the right word).

Roach backs are stupid-looking as well as stupid, generally.

And it seems they are way too heavy-built - huge bear/Rottweiler heads, oversized necks hanging the heads listlessly, etc.  Not a bit of "agile" about them.  More like Newfoundlands than a good old-fashioned SHEPHERD dog.

Generally to me it seems the working lines are the proper conformation, or close to it.

4pack-I think that is exactly the problem. Too many people hold TV and movie dogs as the standard for the breed.  I love the disposition of the High Lines but I am more and more drawn to the Working Lines. 

I don't think the appeal of the physical is based purely on the physical. What I mean to say is if you see a Dentist riding his pleasure horse and a real cowhand riding his horse you are looking at two very different things. A cowhand's looks will be a reflection of his personality/lifestyle. More rugged, less "pretty". This translates into a physical appearence that reflects who the person is. Not meaning to sound like an anti-dentite but a person who works in an air conditioned office all day and is not physically strong and able enough to do strong physical labor is going to be fairly easy to pick out in a crowd.

I think a WL has looks that translate into function in much the same way. To me, this is the growing appeal for the WL.  And I love the blocky handsome head of the DDR dogs plus their intensity. My next will definately be DDR.

Yes, the GSD does come in different colors, coats and sizes.  These also include long coats, white coats and dwarfs.

The fact is, we are where we are, and the only thing that is likely to change in the BSZS is maybe the size restrictions will be more strictly enforced, right or wrong.  Hopefully, they will also give attention to the backs of these current high placed dogs.

Possibly, the BSP will allow long coats, white and liver coats, and mixed GSD and Mal mixes to be awarded top honors, as long as they perform outstandingly, right or wrong.

In my memory, in the U.S., nobody grew up thinking that the show line dogs of Europe today, were what a GSD should look like.  Actually, we grew up thinking that a GSD should look like a working line black and tan GSD, like Rin Tin Tin.  No roach or banana back.  No dragging rear end.  No sables or blacks, but sometimes whites.

At least, that is the way I remember it, as do the other people my age remember it, that I have conversed with.

Of course popularity does not necessarily make something better (I could mention Hillary Clinton for one, but I won't), however, popularity does indicate where the public is today.  I for one, do not follow the crowd, and obviously most of us here do not also.  I will say though, that given the fact that the GSD of today is geared towards making money (they don't neuter or spay VA or BSP dogs without a REALLY good reason), means that each chases their own specific market.  The market for the BSZS winners far surpass the market for the BSP winner.  Progeny numbers reflect this fact.

As I stated previously, my ideal GSD would be a sable (dark preferrably) with a straight back, larger in size, and with the eagle face not too small or not too large, and have the guts and protectiveness of Rin Tin Tin.  To me, that would be the perfect dog.

Although, I have seen some really really beautiful Long haired GSD's.  But, that is a discussion going on another thread. 

"Possibly, the BSP will allow long coats, white and liver coats, and mixed GSD and Mal mixes to be awarded top honors, as long as they perform outstandingly, right or wrong."

What left field exactly did this come out of?

When I was first drawn to the breed, the picture of a GSD that I had in my mind was of a dog that looked like Fanto vom Hirschel and was strong, stable, loyal, protective, and intelligent. Now, I see Dragon vom Felsonschloss(SP?), and loyal, protective, strong, and intelligent! This breed is gorgeous, not just in looks, but in it's desire to please, it's versatility, courage, intelligence, loyalty, & I swear, a sense of humor!(sign of intelligence) And which would I prefer to own now? ....BOTH! Excellence is what is 'prettiest' of all. I'm not sure I can articulate what I'm trying to say...but I'm sure you all understand. jh

I have always had working line GSDs, so that is what I am drawn to; however, I think the german showline dogs are very handsome as well.