Qustions about culling? - Page 7

Olskool, sounds to me like we are on the same page here. What is it that you do not agree with?

Two Moons, my question was - are there any WORKING LINE GSD's with HGH titles and are any dual titled with both Schutzhund and HGH?

Do right, 
Thank you for your reasonable response.  I expect to get bashed, I expect some to find this subject deplorable, but I am tired of one side painting the other side as evil.    Many years ago I did a breeding of two very nice German dogs. I did everything by the book.



When the litter came it was a nice looking litter ( that later gave me hell ) but I was so pleased with her and them.
After a short time I went into the room where the welping box was and saw one of the pups was laying very still. I could not see all of the pup and thought it was partially covered with a blanket.  When I lifted it up I was shocked ( putting it lightly) that this little pup was half eaten. From ribs down there was nothing. I was very upset with this mother that seemed to care so well for her other pups yet killed and ate half of this pup.  I didn't know whether to cry, kill her or what.

I contacted a dear friend, someone that had been very involved with working dogs for many years and told him what happened.  He was not shocked, just simply stated that the pup was probably not sound in some way and the mother knew it and this was one of natures way of culling.  This thought prevails today.  I will not argue this point because regardless of why she killed and ate the only one pup is a mute point .( though I believe he was right)  

The point I am trying to make is which is a more inhumane way of dying, being drowned quickly and efficiently or by being eaten alive by your mother ?  Since some are defining what's humane and inhumane, we need to take an open eyed, ( not emotional) look at this issue.  

In all honesty, I would hate to do it. If I am forced to cull it would be with a bullet. I have had to do this with suffering animals and it's never fun.  Lots of things in life are not fun but I try not to let emotions dictate sound reasoning.  If I ever took on the responsability of coming up with another breed, culling would have to be apart of the process as it was for every breed in existance today.

Olskools,

As always

olskools,

You are so well spoken.   

This topic is very difficult for me as I am a total animal lover and could not personally bring myself to do this.  Perhaps I'd be the very very few and far between that WOULD alter the pups and place them in good homes even if it were to cost me $ and the loss of gaining monetarily to "sell" the pups.  Isn't it matter of factly stated that people who can not afford to breed or take losses with unexpected circumstances just have no business to breed in the first place???  Just my 2 cents.

Agar,
Trust me, I understand your feelings on this issue. Thanks for sharing, it's a worthwhile concept to consider.       P.S. I sure like your dog, hope to get one from this now defunct kennel one day.

Olskoolgsds,

pretty good topic, I can agree with many that is said. If a pup is unfitt and the bitch sorts it out - fine by me ! I had one pup mum would not let it go to the teets. So I insisted, and mum did let it happen, because she obeyed what I wanted. Turned out the pup did not have the reflex to suck on that teet, so i helped him. Well, you cant stick around your litter 24/7, next morning she had him sorted out, and he was lying dead in the corner. Was it hard for me ..... you bet, but I consider this to be natural selection and that is just fine. Now to cull a pup, because its smaler than the others but otherwise healthy, nope, there would be no freaking way for me to do so.

Olskool, your quoating of the SV regulation is not very acurate, I will try too translate it again.

" Puppys with any deformaties or those, who will not be able to survive on long sight, are to be presented to a Vet, not later than 11 days after whelping. If the Vet decides that the pup has no chance to survive & decides to pts, it has to be done painfree. " There is nothing stated there that a pup could or should be culled because it can not keep up with his littermates ! There is also nothing stated in there that says that the pts can be done by a knowlegible person, it clearly states it has to be a VET ! The SV would never make such a statement, as it is against the law here in Germany to kill a healthy animal ! Even if one has the knowledge how to do it, it would be against the law, it only can be done by a VET.

Regards Ulli

when i was a kid, i remember reading a book that mentioned this in it ...i cant remember the name of the book tho....anyway, i think the kid in the book ,saw a man at a river or somethin, and he had a bag that he put in the water and weighed down with rocks....when the man left..the kid got the bag out of the water...the bag had a pup(s)? in it.....if i remember correctly..the man bred black labs and this pup(s) had a white patch on it...he was getting rid of the pup secretly though...didnt want anyone to know his dog had produced a default..could never sell pups from her again...

i had no idea that people still did these things....the pup was not sick or anything like that- it just had a white patch...i believe the story went on that the kid kept that dog and it turned out to be a great dog..(one of those hero-dog stories)...

i wonder how many people do this to hide faults? if you go look at a litter, and you see that one pup in the litter has a fault, would you not buy a pup from that litter at all? would it show that if a pups littermate has a fault, then that could mean that any other pup from that litter could possiably produce that fault in the future? does'nt even the best dogs, the best planned litters, produce some kind of fault in at least one pup?

when i was a kid, i remember reading a book that mentioned this in it ...i cant remember the name of the book tho....anyway, i think the kid in the book ,saw a man at a river or somethin, and he had a bag that he put in the water and weighed down with rocks....when the man left..the kid got the bag out of the water...the bag had a pup(s)? in it.....if i remember correctly..the man bred black labs and this pup(s) had a white patch on it...he was getting rid of the pup secretly though...didnt want anyone to know his dog had produced a default..could never sell pups from her again...

i had no idea that people still did these things....the pup was not sick or anything like that- it just had a white patch...i believe the story went on that the kid kept that dog and it turned out to be a great dog..(one of those hero-dog stories)...

i wonder how many people do this to hide faults? if you go look at a litter, and you see that one pup in the litter has a fault, would you not buy a pup from that litter at all? would it show that if a pups littermate has a fault, then that could mean that any other pup from that litter could possiably produce that fault in the future? does'nt even the best dogs, the best planned litters, produce some kind of fault in at least one pup?