Who objects to this dog being bred? - Page 2

He is HDa2, ZW73 (super low for a2). Had several breedings with at least 3 litters in Germany, some outside of Germany. So far there are 14 pups registered in Germany, 9 with HDa1. 100% - most dogs, or their owners, would like to dream of that. His a3 mother had 26 pups, 20 of which were x-rayed, with 75% of that as a1s, she has a ZW of 91! Aly of course with his 92% a1s...

Not worth the argument because these things are self-regulating. Either you like what you see or you leave it be. No one is forced to breed to that dog. That is called personal choice. It is first and foremost a sport, especially at that level. Not just a sales pitch. The owner must have enjoyed working that dog immensely and that dog proved to be an outstanding performer. Why beschmutz that accomplishment with this triade now? Especially for a part show line dog. That'll teach some of the 'purists' that say a top sport dog must not have any show line blood :o). 

As to percentage of LCs, what do you know about the motherside? Can't have LCs without the mother doing her part. Use a female that has no LC factor and you won't have that issue. For the same breeder to go there twice, one year apart, means that he must have liked what he saw. With most dogs we never see what the whole litter looks like after our pup leaves the breeder, unless it is shows or trialed. Your own dog may be the only 'good one' out of a bunch of coated, kinktailed, yelloweyed, poorpigmented, whitechested and socked, eastywesty dwarf, peeifIseemyownshadow GSDs...

There are lots of other pix of that dog online, he looks different in pix taken in the summer. He is a very heavy coated dog, and yes, you can get some coats from a dog like that, but you can also improve on coats in lines where coats are getting too short and Malinois like with a dog like that. Its not all bad.  

Why this need for constant depreciation of other peoples dogs is ??? They don't have to be perfect and if someone absolutely feels a need to breed to him, then be it. You also never now what a dog really has to offer to his offspring unless you produce some. With that line of argument we would have never had Yoschy. That would have been a shame.

Great performance - hats off to that dog and his handler.

Honestly, I have no clue who owns most of the dogs we discuss.  I have not wanted to take away anything from this great dogs' accomplishments, that is not my intent.  The op asked why some might not breed to a dog even as accomplished as this and I tried to give a hopefully honest answer.  I see a litter with 6 coats out of 8.

Perhaps for the most knowledgable of breeders this question is not so cut and dry as it appears to me, I don't know.  What I do know is the very least I can do for now is adhere to the rules set by the SV.

One thing, for someone like me, it would be amazing and a dream to own a dog of this calibre and   have to contemplate the dilemma.

I don't think this is a constant need to depriciate others dogs so much as a real thirst to understand & learn.

I see a litter with 6 coats out of 8.
I see, and that is ALL the males fault?

the very least I can do for now is adhere to the rules set by the SV
Ummm SV breedings and SV registered litters taking place IN Germany is not adhering to SV rules? How exactly? On the contrary, the dog must have in fact all that is needed under SV rules, including a show rating and I am sure he got that before he excelled in the sport but after he turned a year when his coat was fully developed, so a warm handshake for the judge is likely out of the question.

have to contemplate the dilemma
What is there to contemplate? You decide, yes/no, evaluate the results and go from there. Sometimes forward, sometimes back, sometimes sideways. Most of the issues mentioned above were due to lack of knowledge about that particular dog and no one really bothered to check. So just bash away then even if we only have part of the story. When will people learn that this DB does NOT provide correct info and most certainly NOT complete info! 
Lucky are those who only have coat quality to consider in their breeding choices. Does it harm the pups? Nope. Here people are simply saying they would not want to be stuck with pups that are not as 'profitable'. Lets just call it what it really is. Coats happen enough from parents that do not have any heavy coats themselves. The coated GSD is part of its history and always will remain part of the breed. If you don't like them, don't breed. Period. Ohhh, and if there is an a3 in the background or even two or three of them I may have to replace a pup and that also affects the bottom line. Ouch. That is why a3 momma was bred to a known producer of good hips. 
Who cares if 6 out of 8 are coats as long as they grow up to be healthy, functional dogs. If one of the 2 regular coated pups turns out great to continue breeding, what a treat. If not, try again, like everyone else does with their litters from all the other more 'perfect' dogs out there and still net maybe only one good pup from a whole litter, if that.

it would be amazing and a dream to own a dog of this calibre
Yup. But did anyone say that before? Without ifs and buts.

I have no clue who owns most of the dogs we discuss
That is the great tragedy here... "don't know who I am writing about, usually don't give a dang either and who cares about consequences anyways. " Very educational indeed. Someone up there thought he knew the owner, thought his name was bozo. 

BAH....... HUM BUG!!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry DH,  but as I originally stated I would not go to a coat for breeding for all the reasons I stated as well as the new reasons I did not notice before that have been pointed out by Dennis and Shelley.   No one has not recognized this dogs talent on the field.

If you want to breed to the SV standard, how could a longcoat be considered a good breeding prospect? Would this dog be eligible for a breed survey? Would his coat be considered a DQ at the Sieger in the working dog class?

D.H.

Glad to see you back with your VERY experienced, knowlegable, and logical opinions. I have missed your input.

My first question to myself was "what is the genetic aspect of the long coat?" I assumed it was recessive. D.H. answered my question.

To me what a dog produces, not what they are, dictates if they are breeding quality. Titles, no titles, long coat, white feet, or whatever. The facts and info on this database is not "all knowing" and does in include all the aspect of a dog or it's quality. May have brought up some valid points regarding hips, etc but as D.H pointed out these all came from info on this database. Limited info.

This dog having show lines may make me re-consider my "pure working" ideology

D.H--

I am sending you a PM. Hope you can give me some insight on something.

Who cares if 6 out of 8 are coats as long as they grow up to be healthy, functional dogs. If one of the 2 regular coated pups turns out great to continue breeding, what a treat. If not, try again, like everyone else does with their litters from all the other more 'perfect' dogs out there and still net maybe only one good pup from a whole litter, if that.

The same argument could be used for breeding pandas, whites, livers & blues, any fault that would not preclude the dogs from being healthy and functional.

My post was about me and if I would object to breeding my own bitch. I'm not telling others what they can and can't do but personally the dog is not what I would want a litter of. 6 out of 8 LC's would be VERY dissapointing to me. I'm a clean freak, I hate hair and get enough of it with my stock coats. GARD I know for a fact you, don't even like brushing your dog, so I can't fathom you with one! LOL

MVF---Do you object to the dog being bred? 

When I logged on and saw the question posed by MVF and then MI GSD's response, I immediately went to the website she offered up...... www.sonorian.fi/kasvatit.htm  Even though not in english, could decipher enough for a clear picture.  Scrolled down to Sonorian A and clicked on Alfio (Luffe), Alzira (Any),and Angelina (Angie)---wonderful, attentive dogs.  Then I scrolled down further and figured I was viewing hip scores and heights of individual dogs.  Noticed the breeding pairs and who produced what.  My impression----people who love and work their (obviously) well taken care of (probably housed, not kenneled) dogs........and, people who see in them what others may not.  The photos, BTW, were great.

I come here to gain insight.  I did.  I doubt any responders posted an opinion with any real iniquitous intent in mind.  If they did.....well......that website sure puts a wrench in the works.  Irregardless....when threads are initiated, info is afforded....and those of us who will go the extra mile.....do just that.  I saw dogs and people on that website that made me feel good about the breed.  I saw concern being given to improving hip status.........using 'the dog in question' on later litters.......or was it just dumb luck?  Somehow, I think not.  Yes, length of coat doesn't seem to be of utmost importance.  Their choice.

I'll let everyone else fight over the sv rules on LC's being bred.  (LOL)