Dogs that spin vs. Dogs that don't - Page 5

Quote : but the behavior is there in the first place, it is not "caused" by training. It is caused by a nerve issue that is inside the dog, that causes him to get into a level of drive that his nerve can't handle. It can be made worse by hectic helperwork/training - can be made better by calm focused training and timely rewards - but it can't be fixed. OK, what "kind" of nerve???? How old, and what kind of training are these spinners getting? ? ? Without those specifics, then I will struggle to continue this, as most helpers just mimic the guy they learned from. Conflict is my number one cause for displacement behaviors. So is this the "nerve" you are talking about? ? ? ? ? by everything else you have described, the dogs not running off and whatever, "fear" of the helper is not an issue. How would fear create a state that makes you spin ? Why doesn't the dog bite, spin, and bite, and spin ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? LOL To me, calm is just a dog that has a high threshold for frustration, and not some amazing ability. Capping, is, to me a dog that cannot stay at the level of drive he is in, and drops out of drive to deal with it. Thats why GSD's cannot do ring. They "cap" and the decoy has just fucked em. I am not going to call that a nerve problem, but definately a dog that cannot deal with himself, and opts out. There, I just gave away the secret of why Mals rock the GSD's and why so many people think that mals are nerve bags when they are not. A mal has to, and does deal with a lot more drive, and conflict, and way better than the GSD, that has to "cap" or drop out of drive a little bit. Mark this down Folks, only cause she is friends with my buddy Tim do I give out stuff like this for free.

Oh boy, Jeff you just raised a very interesting point........

If the arguement is that spinning is a "nerve issue" brought on by a dog that cannot "cap' their own drives thus the nerve issue stems from an inability to handle such high drive, then Mals must be clearer in the head and have better nerve as they are able to handle a higher level of drive than a GSD?

Wow that gives us something to think about

I am still hoping someone can produce some video of another breed of dog spinning like a maniac during bitework that is not a GSD.

Folks it is a GSD thing and not a big deal. Sometimes things just are the way they are and we do not need to "fix it" try to identify what causes it, or place a lable on it.

It is also a Dobe thing. It is also a Mal thing. Maybe also a always on a static line thing. (training again) It is not so much that the dog cannot "cap" their own drives, as much as the training that takes an immature dog that is not ready to deal with himself, AND the the type of training designed for lower drive, higher threshold dogs. One of my points is that "capping" or dropping out is actually a weakness that is cherished by GSD people, or I shoud say Sch people. "Capping" does frustrate the dog, and so consequently the dog will bite harder. If you take a young dog to the point in drive where it's immature brain cannot deal with itself, then you start to see odd behaviors, like spinning. What I am trying to do is have you guys think about high drive easily frustrated dogs not as nerve problem dogs, but training problem dogs. Time to explore the darkness OOOOOOOOOO scary ! ! ! ! LOL Maybe I can get a video of the kind of work that could produce this.

Here is a link to some "amped up" type training. Just an example, and I don't want people to get all weird, just watch it, and see where he takes this dog. http://edreyesk9.com/videos/bubba.wmv

Here is another thought, if these dogs are trained correctly, then maybe the end result is this. http://www.meentocht.be/films/ZenderWM05C.wmv Don't throw away the baby with the bathwater. LOL