The Biggest Problem of the Breed: Nerves - Page 2

Iluv - I think Puputz was right in saying there's a difference between simply "not reacting", and actually handling stressful situations.  1 I think is almost being emotionless, which isn't always a good thing in real life (the dog wouldn't care that you're in trouble, etc; he could get killed not caring, which would be "stupid").

hi group, this is an awesome topic! YES, IMO the biggest challenge to the breed is nerve quality. Define nerve? The ability to adapt to stressful situations quickly and keep an open temperament in all environmental stressors. Examples? Easily approached by strangers moving boldly toward the dog in an indiffferent manner. Dog stands calmly, head up, tail up, and is nuetral or friendly. Dog can navigate slick, shiny surfaces, creaky surfaces, dark tight areas, dog can tolerate with indifference loud sudden noises or sudden visual flapping, banging stimuli. Dog is comfortable in heavy pedestrian traffic or in crowded areas with other canines. Dog can be handled by a stranger without undue stress or defensiveness.

I have heard and experienced the precept that nerve is the hardest quality to keep intact in a mating. In other words, bad nerve to bad nerve is impossible to breed out for two to three generations; bad nerve to good nerve is probably not going to produce solid dogs, and good nerve to good nerve can and will produce some 'soft' and questionable temperemants. I think this helps underline the extreme importance of developing nerve quality in at least two to three generations of matings.

Yes, high prey DOES indeed mask poor nerve. In fact, a few of us are starting to think the low trigger that high prey dogs have (in other words how easily they are stimulated) might at times correlate to a 'weaker' nerve. So mating high prey to high prey can extinguish solid nerve traits (we are just beginning to form this concept). Maybe the 'highest prey' tiny 7w old pup will not be the best selection because of this. The caveat for this is the correct, hard, dominant male ; an excellent breeding type is most likely NOT a high point dog and definitley NOT a dog for a pet home or uneducated training in protection.

Please forgive me if i have offended anyone with these comments. Nothing is guraranteed, nothing is ever 100%; i am just sharing some observations we have noticed and also some thoughts we have noticed others are developing themselves.

cindy g.

MIGSD-  I think a pup whose genetics would portray a stable solid dog can be ruined by poor imprinting and socialization.  I know someone who has a bitch that on paper would make you think "wow, this has to be a pretty impressive dog"  BUT when you see her in person she is not social, shy, nervy....but it was not her genetics that made her this way but rather her owners who just kept the dog in the house or yard with them and never took her places so she'd feel comfortable building her confidence.  She's a pretty girl with a nice pedigree BUT she has issues that are environmental "hazards". lol  I am convinced this was not genetic since she's had 3 litters- 2 of which I was able to see a couple pups out of her as they got older and those dogs did not portray the shyness or have nerve problems. I think the imprinting is very very essential to what the finish product will be.

"In fact, a few of us are starting to think the low trigger that high prey dogs have (in other words how easily they are stimulated) might at times correlate to a 'weaker' nerve."

OMG, that's my dog now.  She has TREMENDOUS "prey drive" - I'm scared for the neighbors' cats.  But she has no other good inherent temperament quality - especially true courage (nerve?) OR interest in protection.

cindy,

good post, well put.

Hello,

IMO i have seen 'family' dogs that basically have not been off the property of the owners that were rock solid nerve under stress and heavy social contacts. I think the term 'abused' dog is HIGHLY over used. I think most of these 'abused' dogs are simply weak nerve.

That is the problem with the breed of gsd. Currently, most of them DO require LOTS and LOTS of socialization to be 'normal' dogs. That should not be the case.

Again, just my opinion from wht I have read and seen.

cindy g

MI:  "Can a pup that genetically should have good nerves be ruined by poor upbringing and imprinting or should that pup be able to bounce back?"

I guess, reading the previous reply, that "genetic" here strictly means "looking at the pedigree" - which to me is superfluous because whole litters of puppies ("same genetics") can present totally different attitudes.

To me, genetic means "inherent" to that individual dog's particular genetic make-up.  From there, I would say there are dogs whose baseline temperament is never going to change - good dogs are good dogs, and it would take TONS to change them; and bad dogs are bad, and it would take TONS to change them.  Environment is important, but not as important I think as people these days make it out to be (i.e., it's never the dog's or child's fault; it's always the owner or the parent or the brother's fault).  Of course, I also think some individuals may "teeter on the edge" where bad or good environment pushes them the opposite way of what they seemed to be inherently.  More easily moldable.

Just MHO from casual observation of pets and people.

gieske, love your last post, too.  I agree there's something wrong if you need "lots of socialization" - which often doesn't work, because the dog is what he is.

Iluv - I think Puputz was right in saying there's a difference between simply "not reacting", and actually handling stressful situations.  1 I think is almost being emotionless, which isn't always a good thing in real life (the dog wouldn't care that you're in trouble, etc; he could get killed not caring, which would be "stupid").

ok...i guess i do get it...i hope.......so the fact that my dog notices, is alert and curious , when other people are horse-playing with my kids....it show shows good nerves that he is aware -but not not over-reacting= trying to attack/ or run and hide from it?.....

the alert/ awareness was what i did'nt realize played a big part in it.......i thought maybe boss had to much nerve because it seems like things that always scared all other dogs ive had/have--.gunshots, lots of people, me yelling at them--does not seem to faze him at all...... i can scream my head off at him and he will stop what he's doing but never acts like 'it hurts his feelings"...my other dogs, (rat terriers) will freeze/ cower/ shake all over- if i raise my voice to them....

Cindy, I agree with you on the "abused" dog statements.  I have done enough GSD rescue to know that many of these dogs were dumped on me or a shelter because of their poor nerves and not because the previous owners abused them.  That on top of high prey drive is a recipe for disaster in a family situation.   On the other hand many of these dogs probably do end up actually abused because of their actions which makes them even worse.   By the time I would get them it would be impossible to adopt them out to the general public.