The Biggest Problem of the Breed: Nerves - Page 6

Alte Baum - Interesting response!!! I would have to agree

4pack

I think it's called being oblivious. Just not having the capability to fathom risk.

If it's not recognized and processessed I don't think it's actually being met as a challenge.

Alte Baum extremely perceptive statement. And perhaps a microcosm of why breeders do have such a hard time agreeing on the proper emphasis for breeding. Even using the same terms there are different meanings. So, theoritically you could have three breeders discussing the merits of nerve. And all are seemingly in agreement but all will walk away from the conversation with a completely different idea.

I have noticed over the years that many otherwise strong nerved dogs will not "bite" if worked at night in darkness if not trained to do so. . The same type dogs that were exposed to woking in darkness at an earlier age did not have the same problems. Has anyone else ever seen this or possibly the opposite?

ok, this is a great thread! Everyone is really thinking and trying to define some important stuff. I would like to share an event that happened today. I was told by a family that their 2yr old W-German working line female needs a home, they have to move.. She was raised with the family, in a house and yard. NEVER been off the property except for a ride to the vet.

I met them at petsmart. The dog jumped out of the crate and went WOW. Tail and head down trying to look 'small'. ....Oh -oh. We led her into the building with birds flapping, carts, tons of people and dogs of all sizes.SHINY floor! As she walked in she got bigger and bigger in stature. After 5 minutes this pretty female was jumping up on people, wagging her tail, absolutely exuberant; she was having a great time. NO dog aggression or any avoidance. No insecurity. No worrry.  Tons of toy drive right in the middle of the store. Back into the parking lot she bounded full of life and energy. Socialized at age two in under 7 minutes. Not bad. Genetics.

I was told she is VERY protective of the home and plays well with all children.

Good nerve. Solid citizen. Quick recovery from the initial 'culture shock'.

Thanks for listening..I was very happy with her. I think we need to breed for dogs like this!

cindy g.

gieske, you have just described what normal GSD temperament is. This is the "happy dog" that is socially confident, outgoing and yet able and willing to express a strong defense when appropriate.  Yes, you are correct, this is what GSD breeders should breed for.  A very expereienced GSD breeder once told me that in his experience the GSDs that would defend their master and home turf the most aggressively were GSDs like you have described, happy sound and stable.

Preston,Cindy, I concur 100 percent!

That's a good example of how you can see what's under the surface, because the dog is suddenly exposed to situations that it hasn't experienced before.  It reminds me of the debate about the "courage test" in schutzhund, which can only be a "real" courage test when it's NOT conducted in a routine fashion that the dog has been preconditioned for.

AAHH Yes!   This post  makes me want to cry!..........Now we,er doing it  My two cents:  some of you stated that it has become a points game, you are correct. more so the top winners happen to be most of the prblem. They have figuerd out how to "cause" a GSD to do what they request by various means ie shock collars hanging, electrocution! and they WIN! how can you argue with those numbers...97-96-98 etc...problem is the judges do not care about how you got the results just that you got it. important traits likes Nerves plays little if any roles in such training.  Now I know not all of you do such things and we all know that high points can be had without that type of traing, but prove me on this.....watch the "guyz" who constantly  win  high points no matter which dog or breeding they have, these are the dogs usually  that cannot be in public and are "put up" right after competition not to see the light of day until either traing or getting a trophy, step on their toe and get an ankle bite!  One should be able to take a Sch trained dog ANYWHERE, that is the purpose of the traing, knowing when to protect and when NOT to bite! freind from foe etc...agian you cannot ardue with the guys who are always at the top of the point scale they say.."look at my scores and shut up" but the GSD suffers...

Such an interesting topic. A pup with weak nerves will always have weak nerves. It's as much of a part of the pup as is its tail. Socializing and desensitizing will cover it up but it will always come out in times of stress. Good training will cover it up for sport. New fields, new helpers, new environment, the nerve issue will pop up again. There is no "fixing" bad nerves.

During puppy "testing", a non-reacting puppy is not the end-all. I like a pup that not a whole lot bothers, of course, who doesn't, right? But the thing I want to see is, what happens when something does bother that pup. Does he run? Does he pee himself? Do his hackles come up and does he growl? Or is he so scared that he nails his handler?

Wow, there are just so many people who have made great points that I can't even try to top that without repeating what they said, thanks for giving me a post to bookmark :-)

I was about to start a new thread with this question but I'll just keep it going, sorry for 'stealing' anything away from the original topic. 2 questions actually -

Is there a difference in the terminology between a dog/pup who is nervous around strange people and the pup who is environmentally unsound? Do these fall into the same category, and is environmental unsoundness come down to a nerve issue? I've seen pups freaked out by people but are not gun shy, new places dont bother them, etc, and other pups who are extremely social but hate new places and things like that.

Also - Fero. I've heard from a few different people very recently that line breeding on Fero often produces environmentally unsound dogs. Is there any pattern to that or is it just coincidence that people are breeding inferior dogs and they just happen to have one notable name in the pedigree to blame it on? (aside from themselves, lol)