The Biggest Problem of the Breed: Nerves - Page 7

Wow! I know a lot of Fero dogs three or four generations down and have seen just the opposite. But, by alot I mean 5 that I know really well. One that I own. Certainly not enough for a generalization for a dog with his breeding numbers.

At nine weeks mine (three gen from Fero) was in the yard chasing grasshoppers, several of our friends roared up on their Harleys within 10 feet of him. He looked up a few seconds and went back to his grasshoppers. He has done obedience 15-20 feet from the train tracks with trains going by since around seven months old. He was startled with the train first time but after that focused on me (well, focused on the treats anyway!!)That's a good example of how you can see what's under the surface, because the dog is suddenly exposed to situations that it hasn't experienced before. 

Darylehret: That's a good example of how you can see what's under the surface, because the dog is suddenly exposed to situations that it hasn't experienced before. 

Yes!! That is what I was trying to get at  on the PTS thread and couldn't seem to get out. Without this, how can you ever know? And if you don't know how can you ever really trust the dog? And when you trust the dog without really knowing you could be in for a nasty surprise when it happens unexpectedly.

Does everyone remember the old drawing of the GSD that shows the proper reaction of the gun shot? The dog looks in the direction of the shot with its ears up(alert) but does not cower or run in any way! THAT is the proper response. The judging has regressed from that to a dog with NO reaction!  not good for the breed That fero grand pup had the perfect  response(grasshoppers/bikers) If something is falling close to him/her , he moves quickly out of the way, turn and face it! not run away!  The temperment  test has a similar thing where a bucket with bolts or rocks etc, is shaken and put on the ground,  the dog investegates it by putting its head in the bucket!, not cowering at all or running away. If we want our breed back then put pressure on the judges to go back to basics! but then who are we to tell them anything!

LOL, well if the dog didn't react, the falling item would land on their head

GSDs are way smarter than that!

Doggo Please   "Now I know not all of you do such things and we all know that high points can be had without that type of traing, but prove me on this.....watch the "guyz" who constantly  win  high points no matter which dog or breeding they have, these are the dogs usually  that cannot be in public".  How high was that tree you fell out of? You have never trained a dog anywhere near that level to have the right to even mention those "guyz". So I whould like to say to you train a dog any breeding and show them how it is done. Till then be a humble nobody and say nothing but sweet words because the bitterness of your inability need not be shared. 

Maligator..I agree good point

IMO a Dog is just that "A Dog". They don't understand and reason like a human (I know some will argue that lol) and it is hard to find a perfect dog. But if you take a pup with good nerves out of a good breeding and you imprint and train it correctly you will have a nice solid nerved dog. To most dogs it is "taboo" to bite a human so if you want a good protection dog you have to work them past that barrier. The more varience you expose them too the more you will know how you dog will respond in certain situations. And as some have mentioned you train in the same location and environment your dog will become conditioned and may/may not respond the same way elsewhere.

One huge problem can occur if a pup is not trained and stressed correctly and can be ruined very easily. Now a dog either is born with good nerves or not but IMO the training and socializing is criticial depending upon the level the dog will be expected to work in.  We all love the natural rock solid dog who will without any training defend our home but most will not on their own accord under a serious threat and even attack. 

SouthTexan, you are correct in what you say but you didn'y improve the nerve, you improved the performance by training and socialization. You will not ruin a solid nerved dog by generally raising it in a family. You just haven't developed things that will come right along if donated to a service agency or working department. Many green dogs are donated to a dept. and if nerves are good and health is good then after 16 week academy they become good police/military dogs.Ask people who procure dogs for the police or military, give them raw talent of nerve/health/ drives, and they can make a fine working animal that saves lives on the streets on in war. If the nerve is weak, i don't care what imprinting you do when they hit maximum stress in training the cracks are going to show. Then most times the dogs are washed out. For sport work this kind of lack of nerve can be covered up by imprinting and training because people will manipulate the variables(trial, judges, clubs, keep trying until dog is five,generosity,etc) so that the dog gets titled. But that dog in military or a police academy would be washed out!!  Now, the weaker nerved dog can be ruined by the way people raise them, but a sound dog will not be ruined unless emotionally/physically ABUSED, and a dog that lives that life will be ruined with imprinting and training being part of their life. PS  And their are many policedogs that haven't graduated from an academy.Some dept. buy Sch/KNPV dogs, put them through a weekend cert program, and put them on the streets. Often, these are the dogs that people see work  and make sweeping judgements on all policedogs. These dogs no more represent the average policedog than the seiger show dogs represent the average sch dog.

Gustav...I guess I should be more clear as you are totally missing my point. I am not speaking of a dog raised by a novice as a pet but refering to strong nerved pups being equal that I have raised. Over the years the pups that I have seen that are heavily imprinted and conditioned for stressors are able to perform at a higher level under duress vs the equal strong nerved pups that did not. I have worked with police K9 over 20 years. Not to be rude this is not my opinion but facts I have learned over many years. Your advise was good though and hopefully some novice trainers will learn from it.

I have the best test for nerves---- the vacuum cleaner!!

SouthTexan, We are in the same church but different pew and i did miss your point. You are focused on an end product that training and imprinting helped acheive and i am focused only on nerve  and the necessity for it to be strong for a good working dog. No problem.

Without Strong Nerves you have nothing..........My breeding philsophy.......